Inky Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 A while back as a fundraiser for my Bike MS ride, I drank a bottle of mustard flavored soda.I got no donations that .night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 "Crowdfunding to build a crowd"? What a complete load of nonsense. If there was any truth to that, why not do it with inexpensive products like T-shirts and (non-speaker) hats? Or have Super Impulse make $15 mini-arcade games for them? Give people something to affordably buy into that they can immediately receive without having to wait over a year, and generate some goodwill towards the company. They'd build a much larger crowd doing that. Then if they actually built a console someday, they'd have a track record of actually shipping something to satisfied customers. I think their new tagline should be "No matter what". Simple as that. https://twitter.com/TheAtari_VCS/status/1002556918953533440 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom_of_Krankor Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 "We'll get something out to you, don't you worry about that! It may be everything you hoped for and more, or it's going to be a huge disappointment. Doesn't matter to us, you already paid for it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I think largely the IGG comments speak for themselves with folks thinking they're getting something special, then, whoooops! i foresee in the future a 'due to uncontrollable circumstances/delays' update from Atari SA when they get far enough down the road they can't deliver everything they promised in their streamvaultmemory box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 If they "just needed to build a crowd" and were only taking "pre-orders", Atari wouldn't have needed the money up-front. They could have used a platform that would charge when the unit shipped. That's how pre-orders work in the real world. Atari took the money because they needed the money. It isn't any more complicated than that. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinto Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 If someone really wanted to crowdfund a gaming-capable mini-PC, I just came across the UDOO BOLT, which is in the same price range, but looks like a better option than the Atari VCS in many ways: It runs AMD Ryzen hardware, which is newer and faster than the VCS's Bristol Ridge APU with its Radeon R5 It's on Kickstarter, so at least there's an actual prototype somewhere The case is designed with adequate cooling in mind It can support up to 32GB of RAM You can add an internal hard drive (in addition to the built-in 32GB eMMC) It supports Windows, if you wanted a non-Linux option The campaign page shows the BOLT actually running stuff (not just "for illustration purposes only") It's scheduled to ship by the end of this year There are some notable drawbacks, though, compared to the VCS: It's decidedly more DIY in nature No Atari logo No woodgrain The case design has fewer ridges You'd have to buy Atari Vault separately for $10 off Steam 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 There are some notable drawbacks, though, compared to the VCS: You'd have to buy Atari Vault separately for $10 off Steam Deal breaker. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffsGamingVideos Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) If they "just needed to build a crowd" and were only taking "pre-orders", Atari wouldn't have needed the money up-front. They could have used a platform that would charge when the unit shipped. That's how pre-orders work in the real world. Atari took the money because they needed the money. It isn't any more complicated than that. You make a good point. They should have waited until the end of 2019 to take orders and not collect the money until they ship (though you have it wrong. Try ordering a Tesla without putting some cash down first)..... BUUUT how do you know Atari needed the money? Are you privledge to their accounting records? If you make a statement like it's a fact then please give a source. Edited July 5, 2018 by BiffsGamingVideos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffsGamingVideos Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Deal breaker. Atari vault is $3.65 today for the steam summer sale. Last day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 If they "just needed to build a crowd" and were only taking "pre-orders", Atari wouldn't have needed the money up-front. They could have used a platform that would charge when the unit shipped. That's how pre-orders work in the real world. Atari took the money because they needed the money. It isn't any more complicated than that. Is it any more complicated to think they are likely to just take the money and run.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Deal breaker. You beat me too it with that one... though I think fewer ridges also is a deal breaker for me as well. If it comes with taco shells with ridges, I might think about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoRacer Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Building a crowd.... of a few thousand people. Big crowd for a console. Not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 You make a good point. They should have waited until the end of 2019 to take orders and not collect the money until they ship (though you have it wrong. Try ordering a Tesla without putting some cash down first)..... BUUUT how do you know Atari needed the money? Are you privledge to their accounting records? If you make a statement like it's a fact then please give a source. My source is every other player in the industry. If I pre-ordered a video game, made by anyone else, I would not be charged until it shipped. If Atari is going to take the money over a year in advance, without even a firm ship date, then they're breaking from that and trying to skirt that system. This presents two possibilities: 1) They need the money to produce the console, or: 2) They don't need the money, but figured they'd become more popular by making their customer base $300 poorer. In other words, colossally stupid. Now, in your defense, I've seen nothing to indicate Atari SA isn't colossally stupid. However, when you have a half dozen ways to take a pre-order, and you choose the only one that requires the buyer to part with their money, I have to think that was deliberate. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 BUUUT how do you know Atari needed the money? Are you privledge to their accounting records? If you make a statement like it's a fact then please give a source. They probably just wanted to put it away for safe keeping. I'm sure they won't actually spend it until next July. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Shinto -- that's an excellent example of a well written product description. Details, reasons for being, actual boards and case inside and out, real software. Shipping date much sooner. Had Atari come forth with something like that, they wouldn't be a joke. I would have considered supporting them. UDOO BOLT costs more once you gear it up properly, just like any PC -- and like "Atari VCS," you could probably build something like this from available parts. Meanwhile, I just got an update about a closed beta for the ToeJam and Earl Kickstarter, which is coming up on 3 years behind their original planned shipping date. Sigh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) You make a good point. They should have waited until the end of 2019 to take orders and not collect the money until they ship (though you have it wrong. Try ordering a Tesla without putting some cash down first)..... BUUUT how do you know Atari needed the money? Are you privledge to their accounting records? If you make a statement like it's a fact then please give a source. I do know making a game console and being able to support it is ridiculously expensive. In 2014 investors were urging Microsoft to sell Xbox (And Bing and the Surface tablet things) because it wasn't profitable and it was bleeding money. Heres an article from June 2017, Atari's revenue is at 15.4 Million Euros (About 18 million dollars) https://www.reuters.com/article/brief-atari-fy-revenue-up-at-154-million-idUSFWN1JP0MN In comparison, Microsoft's 2017 revenue was at around 89-90 Billion dollars. Microsoft spent around 100 million dollars on research and development for just the Xbox One controller alone. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-20-xbox-one-pad-cost-usd100-million-in-r-and-d-microsoft The Xbox brand didn't first turn a profit until 2008, 7 years after the original Xbox was first released. The only reason the Xbox made it past the first console was because it had the backing of a wealthy company with deep pockets like Microsoft behind it that was willing to absorb the losses for several years for a possible chance it might finally turn a profit several years down the road (And they got ridiculously lucky and struck gold with Halo) If it would of been some other company it very well may of never made it very far. If Microsoft had trouble with the Xbox being profitable, what on God's green earth makes you think Atari is going to have no issue whatsoever? Simply put, companies like Sega and definitely Atari do not have the financial ability to launch and support a console. I've said it before and i'll say it again, it would take a company with deep pockets such as Google, Samsung or Apple to have any chance of launching a console that has any chance at lasting and potentially succeeding. Edited July 5, 2018 by Pink 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I do know making a game console and being able to support it is ridiculously expensive. In 2014 investors were urging Microsoft to sell Xbox (And Bing and the Surface tablet things) because it wasn't profitable and it was bleeding money. Heres an article from June 2017, Atari's revenue is at 15.4 Million Euros (About 18 million dollars) https://www.reuters.com/article/brief-atari-fy-revenue-up-at-154-million-idUSFWN1JP0MN In comparison, Microsoft's 2017 revenue was at around 89-90 Billion dollars. Microsoft spent around 100 million dollars on research and development for just the Xbox One controller alone. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-20-xbox-one-pad-cost-usd100-million-in-r-and-d-microsoft The Xbox brand didn't first turn a profit until 2008, 7 years after the original Xbox was first released. The only reason the Xbox made it past the first console was because it had the backing of a company like Microsoft behind it that was really to absorb the losses several years for a possible chance it might finally turn a profit several years down the road (And they got ridiculously lucky and struck gold with Halo) If it would of been some other company it very well may of never made it very far. If Microsoft had trouble with the Xbox being profitable, what on God's green earth makes you think Atari is going to have no issue whatsoever? Simply put, companies like Sega and definitely Atari do not have the financial ability to launch and support a console. I've said it before and i'll say it again, it would take a company with deep pockets such as Google, Samsung or Apple to have any chance of launching a console that has any chance at lasting and potentially succeeding. Not to mention... the Xbox and the Dreamcast were modern consoles offering contemporary popular games, not a cheap PC board offered in a novelty shell being sold on nostalgia. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 2016 article, Nintendo spent "Nearly $527 million" on R&D costs that fiscal year. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/research_firm_reckons_nintendos_spent_nearly_usd527_million_on_research_and_development_this_fiscal_year From 2008, a whole 10 years ago, Sony spent 3.32 billion on R&D and manufacturing costs for the PS3 https://www.geek.com/games/playstation-3-cost-sony-332-billion-it-may-not-recoup-576005/ Now explain to me again how that "almost 3 million" Atari raised on Indiegogo is going to bring them to the promise land and silence us "haters"!? Update:Fixed typo, meant 3.32 billion, not million. Edited July 5, 2018 by Pink 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 2016 article, Nintendo spent "Nearly $527 million" on R&D costs that fiscal year. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/research_firm_reckons_nintendos_spent_nearly_usd527_million_on_research_and_development_this_fiscal_year From 2008, a whole 10 years ago, Sony spent 3.32 million on development costs for the PS3 https://www.geek.com/games/playstation-3-cost-sony-332-billion-it-may-not-recoup-576005/ Now explain to me again how that "almost 3 million" Atari raised on Indiegogo is going to bring them to the promise land and silence us "haters"!? And remember.... Atari didn't NEED that money! They just wanted to build a crowd!! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 2016 article, Nintendo spent "Nearly $527 million" on R&D costs that fiscal year. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/research_firm_reckons_nintendos_spent_nearly_usd527_million_on_research_and_development_this_fiscal_year From 2008, a whole 10 years ago, Sony spent 3.32 billion on R&D and manufacturing costs for the PS3 https://www.geek.com/games/playstation-3-cost-sony-332-billion-it-may-not-recoup-576005/ Now explain to me again how that "almost 3 million" Atari raised on Indiegogo is going to bring them to the promise land and silence us "haters"!? Update:Fixed typo, meant 3.32 billion, not million. Thank you. I was thinking that 3 million must have been a lot of money 10 years ago. Inflation isn't that bad, right? Edited July 5, 2018 by mbd30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) And another reference point 2017 article-The Roku company had yet to turn a profit http://fortune.com/2017/09/01/roku-ipo-filing-facts/ In fiscal 2016, Roku lost $42.8 million. They spent $48.1 million on R&D costs in the first six months of 2017. The first Roku streaming player came out 2008. 8 years later in 2016 the company was still not profitable and was still losing money. Let that sink in. Edited July 5, 2018 by Pink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugglesTx Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Their market cap is around $130 million so $3 is good bit of change for them. Nintendo stormed back into the market and is killing it with the Switch after the Wii U tanked. The Atari box is not doing that for Atari though. But if marketed it correctly at places like Best Buy it might sell. Places like Gamestop is the wrong market IMO for a console like this. Need to hit us old guy up not the younger generation. A older customer buying a nice new big HDTV and seeing that cool looking Atari branded box at Best Buy might just jump in based on nostalgia. Thats the market they should go after IMO. Has to be $200 or less though. Assuming it is produced of course they might have some success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Marketing is expensive and a whole different beast, and it's vital and important. And since the shills love comparing the Apple Fuji logo to Apple and think it has the same prestige and brand image... Marketing is one of the big reasons Apple is as successful as they are and have the prestige that they have, and the reason they can sell their products at the prices that they do. You can hate on Apple all they want but they're geniuses at marketing. Go back 14 years ago and how often would you hear people refer to any MP3 player as an iPod? How many people have you heard over the past several years refer to any tablet as an iPad? I remember back around 2005 when I was in 7th grade. My school had banned "iPods" And Numerous students thought they were being clever with the supposed "Loophole" when they'd be using their non-Apple MP3 player during class. I've lost count how many times a student got in a pissing match with a teacher claiming "It's not an iPod. iPods are made by Apple. You said no iPods, you never said anything about any other brand of MP3 player" Hahahahaha, Good Times FYI Apples marketing budget in 2013 hit $1 Billion https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-ad-budget-hits-1-billion/ Obviously you won't or need to spend that much on marketing, but it would cost a sizable amount of money for a decent advertising budget for Atari get the word out. Realistically, how much advertising did the Ouya have? How many people realistically even knew what an Ouya was or that it existed? If Atari thinks the fact that their new box will sell at a higher price then a PS4 or Xbox One because of the Fuji logo on it, they got a lot of work to do marketing wise (and actually build and release something as well ) to build up their supposed prestige and brand image that they think they have. Edited July 5, 2018 by Pink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugglesTx Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Marketing is expensive and a whole different beast, and it's vital and important. And since the shills love comparing the Apple Fuji logo to Apple and think it has the same prestige and brand image... Marketing is one of the big reasons Apple is as successful as they are and have the prestige that they have, and the reason they can sell their products at the prices that they do. You can hate on Apple all they want but they're geniuses at marketing. Go back 14 years ago and how often would you hear people refer to any MP3 player as an iPod? How many people have you heard over the past several years refer to any tablet as an iPad? I remember back around 2005 when I was in 7th grade. My school had banned "iPods" And Numerous students thought they were being clever with the supposed "Loophole" when they'd be using their non-Apple MP3 player during class. I've lost count how many times a student got in a pissing match with a teacher claiming "It's not an iPod. iPods are made by Apple. You said no iPods, you never said anything about any other brand of MP3 player" Hahahahaha, Good Times FYI Apples marketing budget in 2013 hit $1 Billion https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-ad-budget-hits-1-billion/ Obviously you won't or need to spend that much on marketing, but it would cost a sizable amount of money for a decent advertising budget for Atari get the word out. Realistically, how much advertising did the Ouya have? How many people realistically even knew what an Ouya was or that it existed? Had a Apple IIc back in 87, been Apple ever since. First iPod, first iPhone, iMac, clamshell iBooks, OS9 the whole list of long Apple memories! Heck even bought Apple stock at $22 and sold it at $44 thinking Id made a killing..what a bonehead move! And your right not long ago Apple was a has been that nobody cared about outside the small Apple community. It was sad really. And thenthat changed to the Apple of today, a giant in the industry. Maybe even more than that... But Atari cant pull that off IMO. Apple innovated like crazy and that lead to their rebirth. Atari is not trying to do that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Had a Apple IIc back in 87, been Apple ever since. First iPod, first iPhone, iMac, clamshell iBooks, OS9 the whole list of long Apple memories! Heck even bought Apple stock at $22 and sold it at $44 thinking Id made a killing..what a bonehead move! And your right not long ago Apple was a has been that nobody cared about outside the small Apple community. It was sad really. And thenthat changed to the Apple of today, a giant in the industry. Maybe even more than that... But Atari cant pull that off IMO. Apple innovated like crazy and that lead to their rebirth. Atari is not trying to do that at all. That's really the key, too. Atari isn't offering anything beyond aesthetics, and even those are weak (IMO). What they are selling is really a moderately functional Knick-knack. Like a Lava lamp or a nutcracker. The purpose it ostensibly has, it performs badly, but that's excused because it looks nice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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