Is the Amico dead?

[orange808]

I thought this video was pretty interesting. It's all speculation, but it's good to hear some educated guesses about the future of the machine and company. I feel bad for employees of the company and fans that really wanted the machine.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpPRxHJMtvI

[Pink]

Intellivision's SEC Filing, if after reading page 39 you still think that Intellivision has a legitimate shot at releasing this, I don't know what to tell you... I mean there's technically a chance, but it's incredibly bleak and a ridiculous long shot at this point.

offeringmemoformc.pdf (sec.gov)

 

And if you're not aware, they got none of the $50k or however much was raised on StartEngine, it all went back to the investors because they cancelled it. They actually lost money since producing an SEC filing and all the other things they had to do to even launch the campaign initially cost them money upfront. It turned out to be a disastrous idea in hindsight, not only did they get nothing (and lose money) from it, but it released their financials and debt out to the public showing just how disastrous everything is. (Read through their debt in their SEC filing, to say it's crazy is an understatement)

 

There's probably no magical angel investor at this point that showed up knocking at their door after their StartEngine campaign flopped. They're most likely going to quietly file for bankruptcy, never emerge from their "quiet" period, and have a fire sale and whatever assets Intellivision does have will be liquidated and sold to a buyer somewhere for pennies on the dollar.

 

I mean, I guess a new buyer/acquirer could go back to work on getting the Amico released. But seeing as how they only had a couple thousand preorders at their peak, and now when you look up the Amico on Youtube and Google, the vast majority of the stuff is extremely negative, with the most watched Amico YouTube videos being negative ones. They'll probably release whatever games they acquire from Intellivision on mobile and/or other platforms to try to recoup whatever money they paid to acquire them from Intellivision. (That'd be the most likely scenario)

Edited March 19, 2022 by Pink

[Cebus Capucinis]

No matter what happens, we can always look back and go...

 

Wouldn't That Be Something? ™️

[Rev]

1 minute ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

No matter what happens, we can always look back and go...

 

Wouldn't That Be Something? ™️

This is the OG. Never forget!

 

 

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, Pink said:

Intellivision's SEC Filing, if after reading page 39 you still think that Intellivision has a legitimate shot at releasing this, I don't know what to tell you... I mean there's technically a chance, but it's incredibly bleak and a ridiculous long shot at this point.

...

Page 39 says that they are in talks with venture capital firms and that Startengine is not necessarily required.  It was probably a long shot from the beginning, part of the risk reward evaluation for investors, too much risk for small investors.  A company that has yet to ship their main products obviously needs funding to keep going.  They also have some deep pockets on their board, so what happens is very much up to them.

 

It's also not surprising that a company that has yet to ship it's main product has debt.  Most of their debt is to board members that converts to equity at some point.  Overwhelmingly, most of the liabilities on the balance sheet should be the Republic/Fig investments.  That money basically paid for the games development so it's understandable that a good chunk of that profit goes to Republic/Fig investors.

Edited March 19, 2022 by mr_me

[Keatah]

I find it amusing that many find projects like Amico to be a scam. It wasn't.

 

There were good intentions behind it. Problem is these projects (today) seem to expand their scope too fast too early. Online gaming, 10 zero-day titles, NFT, big leaderboard networks, convoluted cartridge-less operation, complex stores/repositories, the crowdfunding, pre-pre-release orders, AAA or AAA-wannabe titles, excessive promises, internet marketing showing too much in-your-face detail (feel like I've already owned and played it for getting it), over-complexity at every turn, ramrodding of "new" material one game after another, buy buy buy, and more of more. JUST STOP! Stop creating unnecessary things in our heads!

 

And all of that mirrors itself in the convoluted creative financing and ways of getting funded - which is more likely to cause problems for the manufacturers/developers. Not to mention it being a distraction.

 

You see, when consoles like the original Intellivision and 2600 came out there was none of that. Absolutely none of that!

 

A console showed up in the store. And we were surprised, and our heads filled with possibilities. There was an adventure in discovering a new console (or even fixed function Pong/Tank machine). And ad-spots on Saturday Morning Cartoons gently fueled the fire that turned into the 80's crazeblaze of videogaming.

 

There was simplicity which kept complexity away from the "infrastructure" of the console itself. You went to the store, plucked down a $20, and bought home a game. The adventure and discovery began all over again. And when we were done we'd PROUDLY display our newly acquired game on a dedicated shelf. And we wanted more.

 

Occasionally we'd get a new catalog and hungrily read it, planning out the next 5 games to purchase over the next 2 months.

 

But with the internet today, a console seems to burn itself out while stuck in quagmire of figuring out how to do things. How to integrate all that excess into a simple package. The crap the modern marketing drones create in their head doesn't manifest itself all that appealingly in someone else's - like the everyday consumer.

 

Simplicity is a near-sleeper positive point of real retrogaming. Modern consoles seem to have the need to somehow ignore that.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Keatah

[+sramirez2008]

12 minutes ago, Keatah said:

But with the internet today, a console seems to burn itself out while stuck in quagmire of figuring out how to do things.

Couldn’t agree more.  I asked and promptly received my refund last July.  The reason I decided to get out then was  mostly due to the hype train running off it’s rails.  

[youxia]

49 minutes ago, Keatah said:

You see, when consoles like the original Intellivision and 2600 came out there was none of that. Absolutely none of that!

This is a rose-tinted take; you're talking as if the crash has never happened   Yet it did, and for a set of reasons too. Some of them might've been different from today's problems but in general the scene wasn't all that different. There were plenty of wild projects people don't even hear/remember about, stuff you only see when browsing some old mags and thinking "the hell was that about"? Of course most of them came from big companies, but they had people approaching them from outside, or employers, who these days would maybe rather go to Kickstarter or some other funding site hoping for investors to flock in.

 

Or even stories behind the successful products are full of crazy drama. Who can say what would happen with C64 if Tramiel didn't embark on his relentless price war? And how wild is it that he was one minute in Atari and the other in Commodore?

 

I've never called Amico a scam myself, but there's no  way I could agree the current situation is all an innocent mistake and a result of being only an enthusiastic, well intentioned drive. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, allegedly. I'm sorry but people who boast magnificent resumes, target billions, and tell us on every step how qualified they are in all fields to complete such venture, need to be held accountable too. Knowing how many of these proverbial red flags were there from the get go, with the biggest one - the pointlessnes of coming out with an overpriced console in a very crowded market, with their base audience already covered  - there was no excuse for wading deeper and deeper into the red. And it's not like others did not manage to succeed while also operating in the same time and enviroment - and I'm not just talking about the big boys. Heck, even Atari managed to release their box eventually.

 

And the cynicality of still taking preorders and selling games (!) for a non existing product, especially in a so called "quiet period" - which, let's face it, is just a very cute euphemism for "hanging over the edge", is another rather distasteful move.

Edited March 19, 2022 by youxia

[Cebus Capucinis]

I'll say this much. If it's a scam they've done an absolutely atrocious job of scamming everyone. $11MM in debt and a (likely) looming Chapter 11 bankruptcy is a poor performance in our modern day of Madoff-style scams. Even if they took 100% of that money and ran (which they clearly didn't), in this day and age that's frankly barely worth the trouble.

 

Despite my souring on the concept very early on (or rather, their inartful and amateurish way of handling running a business in a Simpsons monorail style), I don't think anyone can justifiably call it a scam, if only because even scammers of this ilk are more competent and sophisticated than these guys are/were (I'd put it somewhere around 80-85% for a "were".)

 

It'll be interesting to see if the boxed "games" (talk about another blunder, the RFID chips) become some ultra rare collector item or something.

[youxia]

5 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Even if they took 100% of that money and ran (which they clearly didn't), in this day and age that's frankly barely worth the trouble.

I don't know, I think I could be persuaded to take a CEO salary and have a jet-set lifestyle for 3+ years going on.

 

So...I have a blueprint for "Famigo", a family friendly console which will also play mp3s and old Amiga games. Any investors reading this thread plz PM me.

[Razzie.P]

22 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

It'll be interesting to see if the boxed "games" (talk about another blunder, the RFID chips) become some ultra rare collector item or something.

I didn't buy them, so they probably will.

[IntyFanMatt]

13 hours ago, mr_me said:

SmashJT's source is a guy that had his Amico preorder auto-cancelled by Amazon Canada.  This has happened before.  Amazon Canada is still taking new Amico preorders.

Go ahead and tell SmashJT that, who is very upset that he wasted $10,000 on a product he’ll never receive.

[+5-11under]

3 minutes ago, IntyFanMatt said:

Go ahead and tell SmashJT that, who is very upset that he wasted $10,000 on a product he’ll never receive.

Pre-orders are almost in the money-lending category for me. I only lend money if I don't care if I get any of it back again.

[number6]

26 minutes ago, youxia said:

I don't know, I think I could be persuaded to take a CEO salary and have a jet-set lifestyle for 3+ years going on.

 

So...I have a blueprint for "Famigo", a family friendly console which will also play mp3s and old Amiga games. Any investors reading this thread plz PM me.

Since release of TheA500 (mini) is only weeks away, might I suggest you get started on your project real soon? heh.

 

#6

[Cebus Capucinis]

23 minutes ago, number6 said:

Since release of TheA500 (mini) is only weeks away, might I suggest you get started on your project real soon? heh.

 

#6

That just sounds like you're a Famigo hater. Stop being a troll and hater and just get on board.*

 

*May be a quote from a "fan" who joined five minutes ago, only posts in the Famigo forum, and suspiciously has an IP located precisely in the center of Famigo headquarters....

 

With regard to JTSmash (or whatever, I abhor YouTube "personalities"), 5-11's point is spot on. A fool and his money. If you put $$$ in this (or any other startup) without realizing there was a non-zero chance (hell, even a coin flip to 70% chance) of failure, statistically, and thus you'd never see a dime back (and thus should consider it money down the drain the instant you click "support" just like any Kickstarter, with getting the item a SURPRISE BONUS!), you're dumber than the Amico crew. But I'm biased because I'm a Famigo fan and/or employee.

 

[number6]

17 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

That just sounds like you're a Famigo hater. Stop being a troll and hater and just get on board.*

 

*May be a quote from a "fan" who joined five minutes ago, only posts in the Famigo forum, and suspiciously has an IP located precisely in the center of Famigo headquarters....

 

With regard to JTSmash (or whatever, I abhor YouTube "personalities"), 5-11's point is spot on. A fool and his money. If you put $$$ in this (or any other startup) without realizing there was a non-zero chance (hell, even a coin flip to 70% chance) of failure, statistically, and thus you'd never see a dime back (and thus should consider it money down the drain the instant you click "support" just like any Kickstarter, with getting the item a SURPRISE BONUS!), you're dumber than the Amico crew. But I'm biased because I'm a Famigo fan and/or employee.

 

All I see now is YouTuber "A" talking about what YouTuber "B" had to say about YouTuber "C"...while insisting they are delivering "content". 

#6

[wolfy62]

Wouldn't SOMEBODY involved be able to step up and just say "It's not dead yet!" If it weren't?

Even Tommy,who was always quick to defend it from startup until now?

If someone is buying him out and has the right to tell him to be silent for the time being,wouldn't they want to raise their hand and say it's still alive to maintain any form of momentum it may still have?

Just my thoughts...

[Cebus Capucinis]

48 minutes ago, wolfy62 said:

Even Tommy,who was always quick to defend it from startup until now?

If someone is buying [Amico] out

Some of us may believe that the first part of this quote is the primary reason why the second part is possibly happening (and probably isn't actually but devil's advocate)....

 

I agree though. The silence is telling, and you would think someone would make a statement if it wasn't the case. The fact that everyone is either muzzled or silent is concerning.

 

 

I think Amico is a perfect example of cult of personality. Cult of personality rarely works in business (with a couple of exceptions in the great minority in Jack Ma and Steve Jobs) because you're not selling the product, you're selling your personality. That very much so happened here, for better or worse, and ultimately created significant issues with the product release.

[JohnPCAE]

2 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

Couldn’t agree more.  I asked and promptly received my refund last July.  The reason I decided to get out then was  mostly due to the hype train running off it’s rails.  

After the Groovybee debacle I soured on pre-ordering so I didn't preorder the Amico. I have no idea how much the preorder was, but if it's $100 or so that would probably cover the parts to build an ACC instead. At least that's a real thing and it's easy to build. Seriously, it is. Just remember to thoroughly clean your flux residue with alcohol afterward.

[Cebus Capucinis]

13 minutes ago, JohnPCAE said:

After the Groovybee debacle

That one's such a shame. I wasn't around for it (was still on my 7 year sabbatical from AA) but reading about it just sucks. What a cool product...just poof.

[mr_me]

2 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I'll say this much. If it's a scam they've done an absolutely atrocious job of scamming everyone. $11MM in debt and a (likely) looming Chapter 11 ...

Are you counting the $11M Republic/Fig investment as debt?  There's an agreement for Republic/Fig to receive a certain amount of revenue.  Otherwise, money is not owed.

 

2 hours ago, youxia said:

I don't know, I think I could be persuaded to take a CEO salary and have a jet-set lifestyle for 3+ years going on.

 

...

You'd have to put in a couple hundred thousand dollars of your own money, hire some engineering and marketing consultants to see if it's feasible, and pay for first employees.  And also work for free for the first year or two.  All for a free trip to Exton Pa and Utah.

 

1 hour ago, wolfy62 said:

Wouldn't SOMEBODY involved be able to step up and just say "It's not dead yet!" If it weren't?

Even Tommy,who was always quick to defend it from startup until now?

If someone is buying him out and has the right to tell him to be silent for the time being,wouldn't they want to raise their hand and say it's still alive to maintain any form of momentum it may still have?

Just my thoughts...

Last update was a couple of weeks ago.  Not sure how soon we should expect the next one.  Tommy Tallarico was the only one there active on internet discussions but he's no longer the CEO.  If the company wants to remain quiet between announcements, he has to follow.

Edited March 19, 2022 by mr_me

[youxia]

7 minutes ago, mr_me said:

And also work for free for the first year or two.  All for a free trip to Exton Pa and Utah.

Source?

[IMBerzerk]

On 3/18/2022 at 2:41 PM, 5-11under said:

I'm getting confused (or people are confusing me)... I'm talking about the 8 boxes, basically... background color is light blue. Have people received those, are those also in the "hopes and dreams" category?

I bought a set in the first release group.  They're ok.  A lot smaller than I expected.  Artwork is really cool.  

 

I haven't asked for a refund.  I'm going to stick it out.  But the hope candle is definitely burning out.  I hope the get a new investor, but I wonder if that will also effect the quality of the product...and by the time it comes out (if it does) will it be totally outdated?

[MrBeefy]

6 hours ago, Gemintronic said:

So, when does the conversation change from "Is Amico Dead?" to how does the community create our own unbranded Inty clone for ourselves?

This reminds me does any of this Amico stuff affect the jzintv emulator since it was baked into the console?

6 hours ago, Rev said:

I believe you are referring to my refund.

What event will have to happen for you to cancel your preorders?  

I just got word from the guy I know that he has finally received the actual money.

 

To go along with the scam/not scam talk, I think that is based on how a person defines scam. I think people who were promised a lot and put money in could make an arguement it is a scam even if the intentions were there to make it. If your definition of scam is they tried then no you won't think it is.

 

I think the "quiet period" is a bad sign because the announcement mentioning it was supposedly going to be an announcement about manufacturing and shipping. They were probably banking on Start Engine to get enough to make something. After the Start Engine flop they probably are looking at bankruptcy. Hence, why there was no manufacturing update and now a quiet time.

 

I thought they had this line of credit and that seems to not be the case. I can/can't believe they lost over a million to Ark.

[mr_me]

35 minutes ago, youxia said:

Source?

The document attached to post #52.

 

10 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

This reminds me does any of this Amico stuff affect the jzintv emulator since it was baked into the console?

No.