Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Matt_B]

To me, it doesn't really matter how much money the founders or anyone else put in. In the realms of venture capital it's entirely normal to throw money at lots of projects with individually low chances of success in the hope that one of the might blow up big time, and the people who do that for a living tend to be aware of the risks as well as the rewards.

 

The problem I've got is with them fleecing fans of the project via crowdfunding and pre-orders when they ought to have known full well that the project still had a lot of risks in it and manufacturing and shipping the product was still a way off. I've got no time at all for the sort of people who'd do that and, even if it's not criminal, it probably ought to be.

 

[Rev]

14 minutes ago, mr_me said:

We were talking about the manufacturing loan of 2021 that's repaid only when Amicos are shipped, $100 per unit.  You can look at the risk disclosure that was shared with Startengine investors earlier this year.  It has all the money each of the founding partners have put in and what they've received in compensation.

The former CEO said if he lost everything he would have it all back in two years. I doubt that person will lose everything after this debacle….So why havent all the refunds been sent after they were guaranteed? 

[Rev]

8 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

To me, it doesn't really matter how much money the founders or anyone else put in. In the realms of venture capital it's entirely normal to throw money at lots of projects with individually low chances of success in the hope that one of the might blow up big time, and the people who do that for a living tend to be aware of the risks as well as the rewards.

 

The problem I've got is with them fleecing fans of the project via crowdfunding and pre-orders when they ought to have known full well that the project still had a lot of risks in it and manufacturing and shipping the product was still a way off. I've got no time at all for the sort of people who'd do that and, even if it's not criminal, it probably ought to be.

 

Pretty much my whole life Ive never put money down on preorders or done any crowdfunding.   And the ONE time I actually do……well you know the rest. 

[Rev]

Yikes!  The trademark wasnt the only thing abandoned. ?

 

How much will a glass door with etched running man logo sell for on eBay?!!!
 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Rev

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

The former CEO said if he lost everything he would have it all back in two years. I doubt that person will lose everything after this debacle….So why havent all the refunds been sent after they were guaranteed? 

As you know, the company may have run out of money, they are short of cash.  Money is owed to anyone that requests a refund, that was the agreement, but there's no certainty.  If the company shuts down tomorrow, lenders are owed money, employees are owed money, it's not just some preorder deposit refund requests.  Maybe if the former CEO was still CEO, deposit refund requests would get higher priority, but it's not up to him.  You know we've had this discussion before.

 

1 hour ago, Matt_B said:

The problem I've got is with them fleecing fans of the project via crowdfunding and pre-orders when they ought to have known full well that the project still had a lot of risks in it and manufacturing and shipping the product was still a way off. I've got no time at all for the sort of people who'd do that and, even if it's not criminal, it probably ought to be.

People could have gotten refunds after the first delay in 2020, or after the second in 2021, and even after it was indefinitely delayed in 2021.  Updates in 2021 shared they were still working on the firmware and backend systems.  Refunds became an issue this year.

Edited July 14, 2022 by mr_me

[ashtonm]

We're back!! 

 

I'm surprised Mr_me is not eating more crow...well, maybe not so surprised. 

 

I've got to be honest. This turned out to be more of a scam than I thought it was. I also think it was grossly mismanaged. But also so much dishonesty that is hard to ignore...even for the most hardcore defenders.

 

I will say I am lucky. I got my original pre-order refunded (Right after the first delay). I then picked up a founders after the last major delay (didn't take long by the way to get a founders at that time). It took some time because they fired everyone including the gal that took care of refunds...but after filing a Paypal complaint they did actually refund me. What's interesting is they said in the last statement they couldn't refund quickly but they have the "intention" to refund everyone. Let's be honest. Tommy has the money to refund people (heck, I could probably come up with it myself). My guess is they are hoping people give up on it and hope that they can create some consoles and not lose the pre-order. If they actually are still trying to put something out.

 

I really didn't think it could get worse than it seemed a year ago...but sure enough this was one big cluster.

 

 

[ashtonm]

2 minutes ago, mr_me said:

As you know, the company may have run out of money, they are short of cash.  Money is owed to anyone that requests a refund, that was the agreement, but there's no certainty.  If the company shuts down tomorrow, lenders are owed money, employees are owed money, it's not just some preorder deposit refund requests.  Maybe if the former CEO was still CEO, deposit refund requests would get higher priority, but it's not up to him.  You know we've had this discussion before.

That pre-order money was supposed to be in escrow. Just another thing they lied about. It was a very sad effort. So much money wasted. I had a feeling they were hemorrhaging money (assuming all the offices and employees were real). And the fact that they are out of money would indicate that was for the most part the case. Terribly ran company by one of the most arrogant people I've come across.

 

Oh well. I actually was looking forward to trying it out. I think everyone (people for and against) wanted to see something come out.

[mr_me]

Escrow has already been discussed here.  Feel free to point out where they said it would be in escrow.  I would expect it to be used to manufacture Amicos.

[ashtonm]

Just now, mr_me said:

Escrow has already been discussed here.  Feel free to point out where they said it would be in escrow.  I would expect it to be used to manufacture Amicos.

TT mentioned it many times it was in escrow. Said everyone should feel safe doing the pre-orders. I'll see if I can find it, but man...could be hard to find stuff nowadays. 

[jerseystyle]

16 minutes ago, mr_me said:

As you know, the company may have run out of money, they are short of cash.  Money is owed to anyone that requests a refund, that was the agreement, but there's no certainty.  If the company shuts down tomorrow, lenders are owed money, employees are owed money, it's not just some preorder deposit refund requests.  Maybe if the former CEO was still CEO, deposit refund requests would get higher priority, but it's not up to him.  You know we've had this discussion before.

Not an excuse. TT personally took advantage of low income YouTubers, many of them with obvious developmental issues. It was predatory. The ethical thing would be for him to pay them back out of pocket if need be.  We aren’t talking millions of dollars here. The latest Pat video showed how much money he was blowing on useless office space while stealing money.  Gross.

[ashtonm]

17 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Escrow has already been discussed here.  Feel free to point out where they said it would be in escrow.  I would expect it to be used to manufacture Amicos.

This covers some of it but not mentioning escrow, though I do remember him saying that. However, he may have meant put aside not to be used when he said escrow (and maybe not a real escrow account). I'll keep checking.

 

Either way, they certainly said any time you wanted a refund you would get it. A lot of people have had a very hard time getting refunds. Mine took a few months...but that was maybe 4 months ago now?

 

 

[Rev]

50 minutes ago, ashtonm said:

We're back!! 

 

I'm surprised Mr_me is not eating more crow...well, maybe not so surprised. 

 

I've got to be honest. This turned out to be more of a scam than I thought it was. I also think it was grossly mismanaged. But also so much dishonesty that is hard to ignore...even for the most hardcore defenders.

 

I will say I am lucky. I got my original pre-order refunded (Right after the first delay). I then picked up a founders after the last major delay (didn't take long by the way to get a founders at that time). It took some time because they fired everyone including the gal that took care of refunds...but after filing a Paypal complaint they did actually refund me. What's interesting is they said in the last statement they couldn't refund quickly but they have the "intention" to refund everyone. Let's be honest. Tommy has the money to refund people (heck, I could probably come up with it myself). My guess is they are hoping people give up on it and hope that they can create some consoles and not lose the pre-order. If they actually are still trying to put something out.

 

I really didn't think it could get worse than it seemed a year ago...but sure enough this was one big cluster.

 

 

Here is UNDENIABLE proof that Amico was not a scam. 
 

 

[Cebus Capucinis]

As much as I don't want to defend IE, if it's in escrow, I suspect it's still IN escrow. Escrow requires a neutral third party (like a trustee) who operates only within the confines of a written agreement and ONLY on those terms, and can ONLY disburse funds in accordance with a written instruction from both parties to a transaction. If the money was disbursed from escrow (assuming a certain former CEO actually knew what the word "escrow" meant, which is....debatable) that means either the escrow agent didn't do their job properly OR the other side agreed to something they seriously shouldn't have.

 

My money is on it never being in escrow and the "escrow" being another lie/misstatement (unless the other side was smart and required it in the underlying agreement). If it was, in fact, in escrow, it's likely still sitting there now, untouched and unusable.

 

It would be strange for investor money/capital to be held in escrow, as the whole point of capital is to be able to be used. Escrow creates red tape that is unnecessary and undesirable for a startup business. I'd frankly be surprised if it was, in fact, in escrow.

[ashtonm]

For sure either way they said at any time you could get your money back. That's not been the case over the past 7 or 8 months. And these are people who are fairly well off. They could find a way to repay the pre-orders. I would imagine there are only 1500-2000 left. Still a good amount of money, but not a crazy amount. 

 

That's probably the worst offense so far from IE. And of course saying the console was on the launch pad to get investors money...when it probably wasn't too close to the launch pad. I still don't think it's ready to go even if they had the money to make the consoles. 

 

Still not fully dead yet, but seems to be getting pretty close.

[mr_me]

The company owes anyone that requested a deposit refund, that's not the issue, they said so in their last update.  The issue is the company doesn't have money.  They also have employees to pay.  Then there are customers that want an Amico, they owe them consoles, that costs money.  There's no excuse for not responding to requests, that doesn't cost money.

 

What does "on the launch pad" mean.  Does it mean the product is ready to go to manufacturing.  If that's what it means than why are they asking Republic/Fig investors for money?  Republic/Fig investors understand that their investment goes to product development.  This is what the Republic Amico investor web page says.

 

1.  Investors invest in Fig Gaming Shares – Amico, of Fig Publishing, Inc (subsidiary of Republic).

2.  Fig provides a development amount (Fig Funds) to the Developer.

3.  Provided the game is successfully developed and published, the Developer will pay Fig a revenue share on sales receipts received by the Developer.

Edited July 14, 2022 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, SteveTheColecoDude said:

 

Don't forget all the vacations Tommy, Hans and John have been flaunting over their social media while investors and customers are out of the money they were promised.

Remember how after the first delay they literally took the month of November off? Bet salaries were still paid.

 

They could have secured parts take basically $100 per console sold. They messed it up trying to get lower prices and messed their ARK contract up in the millions.

 

Don't you know going into debt and begging for crowdfunding money to get it made is a great sign that things are good!?

3 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

Show me where TT invested his own money in an interest free loan. Show me where the founding partners put up their own money. I haven’t seen that and as far as I’m concerned they’re all thieves at this point. And I don’t mean where they’ve said they had- show me proud because there have been too many lies. Why haven’t refunds been honored?

If he really believed in his product like he flatbed his gums here about it he would have invested money into it, and not done a loan.

 

 

As far as the money goes it has been spent. If it wasn't they would be processing refunds and there are people who have waited a month now for their money. They never responded at all to another guy I know and that has been over a month. The claim that it was 100% refundable was a lie into manipulating people to dog pile on anyone who said them taking money was bad.

 

Tommy got super mad when I posted the Fig link. In retrospect it's because it showed that it was crowdfunding and things financially were most likely not going well at IE. Comparing Amico to VCS, Ouya, and Chameleon is an insult to those 3 consoles. This has been way worse than any of them.

[+grips03]

Can a SNES Jr. fit into the Amico case?

[Rev]

Here is definition of launch pad. Who can argue?

[MrBeefy]

9 minutes ago, grips03 said:

Can a SNES Jr. fit into the Amico case?

Is a junior board the size of two feet? We know you can soak your feet in it. ?

[ashtonm]

21 minutes ago, mr_me said:

 

 

What does "on the launch pad" mean. 

It should mean it's very close to launching...not a year or two away.

[Matt_B]

7 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Tommy got super mad when I posted the Fig link. In retrospect it's because it showed that it was crowdfunding and things financially were most likely not going well at IE. Comparing Amico to VCS, Ouya, and Chameleon is an insult to those 3 consoles. This has been way worse than any of them.

I'd think the only way in which the Chameleon is better is because it got called for the scam it was before they could take anyone's money.

 

Had they managed to take orders for delivering thousands of consoles with only a capture card in a Jaguar case to show for it, things would probably have gone just as badly, if not worse.

 

Anyway, I'm sure your money would be just as safe with Phil Adam now as it was back then. ?

[MattPilz]

31 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Refunds became an issue this year.

On February 10, 2022, the new CEO alongside John were still encouraging users to get on the list for FE pre-orders (and put $100 down). Neither of them alluded to there not being any money for refunds, even as Mullins said "I don't see a reason to cancel your pre-order if you know at any point you can get your deposit back. Hold-off..." Phil said $100 to one person might mean more than another but that "there's people waiting to take those units, right now we have the waiting list, it'll create an opportunity for a few more people."

 

John Alvarado (Feb. 10, 2022): Even if they like the game, if they're looking forward to it, they might have other short-term cashflow needs and decide that they need that $100 back and that's fine. Like Phil said, it creates an opportunity for someone else who missed the boat initially to get in. That's why we gave them that guarantee so that they can feel comfortable doing it and if necessary they can get it back, that's totally fine.

 

The fact that they were still discussing this $100 back guarantee while taking new pre-orders even after the SEC filings and disclosures, without hinting that this amount was not always liquid for refund, is problematic.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by MattPilz

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, ashtonm said:

It should mean it's very close to launching...not a year or two away.

Just two years? You are optimistic. They claimed by end of year and have said that before. So 2023 is the next "best possibility". I have some years before my avatar gif needs updated.

 

Truth is Tommy constantly lied about their possibility to launch for the longest time. He knew they couldn't and would stretch it out. Same thing is being done now. It isn't being launched this year.

 

3 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

I'd think the only way in which the Chameleon is better is because it got called for the scam it was before they could take anyone's money.

This basically turned into what would have happened if they had taken money. Yes there was a prototype but hindsight shows it to be nowhere as far along as they claimed. Amico was basically a better funded Chameleon. 

[MarioMan88]

I’ve gamed, collected and played nearly every console since the APF. Followed console launches like Xbox and PlayStation from “newcomers” and witnessed the death of arcades and the rebirth of pinball machines. This Amico fiasco is the absolute craziest and most crooked thing I’ve ever seen! All those INTV folks should be shamed until every last “preorder” cent is refunded. 
 

Appalling….incredibly appalling. I’m still not sure how to even describe it to my friends who I even mentioned it to back when I was excited. Which seems like decades ago. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by MarioMan88

[mr_me]

10 minutes ago, ashtonm said:

It should mean it's very close to launching...not a year or two away.

It was already delayed by one year, months before the Republic/Fig campaign closed and investor funds committed.  Like I said Republic/Fig investment is about product development, which sometimes doesn't go as scheduled.

 

5 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

On February 10, 2022, the new CEO alongside John were still encouraging users to get on the list for FE pre-orders (and put $100 down). Neither of them alluded to there not being any money for refunds, ...

They were working on securing more funding, it's how they've been operating since the beginning.  A company with no revenue needs funding to operate.  It's no secret that their overhead was considerable and much of the money previously raised went to the development of games and hardware.  We were speculating after they announced the indefinite delay in August 2021 that they could run out of money.