Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[SegaSnatcher]

6 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Would it be worth them doing that though? How many games absolutely needed it? 

I will agree that while most games are fine just using any modern USB controller on emulation devices like MiSTer, it can get a bit annoying for the games that utilize the keypad to a great degree like Tron Deadly Discs.  

It's definitely annoying having to reconfigure the controller per game for INTV emulation. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by SegaSnatcher

[Keatah]

23 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

1. Original Founder's Editions might launch, but retail, not happening.

Then I ain't buying or recommending. Whenever I recommend gaming hardware, be it accessories or flashback consoles or well-established brands.. even PC hardware.. a requirement is that it be available in retail.

[+CurlyQ]

[Rev]

28 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

1. Original Founder's Editions might launch, but retail, not happening.

 

Hypothetical question. If an electronic product such as Amico, is only ever made in a small batch, and shipped straight to customer direct, never going to a retail store (online or brick/mortar) would it still need to pass all FCC/CE/UL safety?
 

[SegaSnatcher]

9 minutes ago, Rev said:

Hypothetical question. If an electronic product such as Amico, is only ever made in a small batch, and shipped straight to customer direct, never going to a retail store (online or brick/mortar) would it still need to pass all FCC/CE/UL safety?
 

As long as "power goes in and video comes out", then I'm pretty sure it's always a requirement.  

[MattPilz]

7 minutes ago, Rev said:

Hypothetical question. If an electronic product such as Amico, is only ever made in a small batch, and shipped straight to customer direct, never going to a retail store (online or brick/mortar) would it still need to pass all FCC/CE/UL safety?
 

Tommy suggested in the past that they only needed FCC clearance to sell the products, but the official FCC verbiage says it is required for any sort of US distribution. Assuming all of the hardware and transmission aspects are stock parts that themselves already had FCC clearance, I could see a way around it by just listing those FCC IDs instead. 

 

But Intellivision said long ago that they had finished all the hard certification phases and the final ones were expected to be done within weeks (a year ago). Their senior hardware engineer, who also departed in April, listed this on his CV: ""Led certification efforts on console and hand controllers with the goal of achieving certification in U.S., EU, and MENA countries. Certification activities included FCC/SIPRE testing, 2.4 and 5 GHZ WiFi and Bluetooth, WEEE and Prop 64 clearance, and others."

 

As of this moment there are no public FCC filings made by Intellivision, unlike other systems we've seen come out including Evercade and Playdate (both of which had FCC filings done long in advance). I remember an argument that Intellivision didn't need to disclose their FCC filings publicly until the last minute, though I'm not convinced that is a solid strategy as it can still then take 6 months or longer for all to clear.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I.E. could work with someone like 8bitdo or RetroBit to release OG INTV controllers with USB connector.  That would be pretty nice. 

It would be nice, but It's a small market for a hardware manufacturer.  A package with Intellivision games and emulator should do better. You don't need IE's permission or cooperation to make new Intellivision controllers, patents expired long ago.  Someone here is making them, they just lack the usb interface. 

 

55 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I'm really starting to think they will make the 100 to fulfill their Fig obligation and maybe another 100 or so to give out to the YTers who did damage control for them. I don't think all Founders will even get one at this point.

 

Fulfilling obligations to Fig or for the Bavarian Grant money means they don't have to pay them back for those monies potentially. So really that is really their primary concern and not Founders. So maybe 200-300 units?

 

Their break even mark is higher with the Sudesh loan and higher cost of parts. They should have ordered them when they could have the thing made for a little over $100 per unit. This won't make it to retail and if it did would not survive at the price its at.

 

I agree that if they release it won't be around long. It is effectively an expensive PnP.

Republic/Fig has already been paid.  They took a percentage of money collected.  When do they have to deliver consoles to Republic/Fig, what happens if they don't.

 

Doesn't matter who finances manufacturing, that won't change their breakeven point much.  And you can't do better than an interest free loan that doesn't have to be repaid until you sell consoles.  The cost of components  have fluctuated over the last couple of years.  At what point was their unit cost of manufacturing $100 and where did that come from?

 

42 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I will agree that while most games are fine just using any modern USB controller on emulation devices like MiSTer, it can get a bit annoying for the games that utilize the keypad to a great degree like Tron Deadly Discs.  

It's definitely annoying having to reconfigure the controller per game for INTV emulation. 

You can map the eight throw directions in deadly discs to the dpad. A thumbstick can emulate the disc when needed but it's not as good.  Then you have games that heavily use the keypad e.g  MLB, NBA, Boxing, Space Battle, Sub Hunt, B17, Space Spartans, Bomb Squad, Sea Battle, Truckin, Utopia.  Technically, it's possible because modern controllers have enough buttons but it's not good enough. 

 

33 minutes ago, Rev said:

Hypothetical question. If an electronic product such as Amico, is only ever made in a small batch, and shipped straight to customer direct, never going to a retail store (online or brick/mortar) would it still need to pass all FCC/CE/UL safety?
 

Yes for FCC.  UL might be optional since they aren't manufacturing the AC adapter.  I think CE is required in Europe regardless of AC adapter, not sure.  Shipping direct or retail has nothing to do with it.

 

It's been discussed before, the product can change during the manufacturing process.  So although they may have passed FCC compliance testing, there's no reason to file until they've gone through manufacturing pre and test production.  The test units they are talking about are being shared not sold, so certification is not required.

Edited July 13, 2022 by mr_me

[jerseystyle]

2 hours ago, Rowsdower70 said:

I never said anything in this thread was incorrect, I just remember a specific promise about there being no Amico content until there was an Amico.   There isn't an Amico, there isn't going to be an Amico.   AtariAge coddled Tommy Tallarico via moderation until it got to be such a crap fest that the entire Amico section (including bad behavior by AtariAge mods) was nuked.   
This whole scam has done a lot of damage to AtariAge's credibility even if nobody here could ever bring themselves to admit that.   I think Albert should stick to his word and keep man baby pipe dreams off of existing forums.
If there's enough people who want to discuss it, make a scam section and go nuts.   It breaks my heart to see this garbage in the Intellivision section. 

I think your emotions shouldn’t be directed at the people who want to discuss the biggest retro scam in the past 10 years. It should be directed at Intellivision, as they have destroyed their brand over the past year. 
 

I think if Atari Age wants to rebuild their credibility (and I agree with you they leaned way too far into the TT worldview) I think that telling people not to discuss the Amico is the opposite of what they should do.

 

And for the record, I had many productive conversations with TT on here, mostly about Cornhole. My support ended when they stole money and haven’t made it right. I mean, these guys have millions- they could just pay off the pre orders themselves, but then I guess that’d be less money for Spiderman figures.

[MattPilz]

14 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

they could just pay off the pre orders themselves

After the second or third delay they should've honored refunds while still preserving the theoretical queue for when Amico would release. A lot of people held onto their spots especially for Founder Editions knowing they'd lose it otherwise. Tommy had implied there were over 300 people on the backlog even as of Feb. 2022 so "you're about to make someone very happy" by canceling. That statistic seemed inaccurate too, as I got on the backlog and then was able to pre-order FE within days.

 

It's now been six days since I opened a PayPal dispute and they still have not responded to that. The employee they had managing refunds and pre-orders was laid off and is no longer with the company.

[SegaSnatcher]

23 minutes ago, mr_me said:

You can map the eight throw directions in deadly discs to the dpad. A thumbstick can emulate the disc when needed but it's not as good.  Then you have games that heavily use the keypad e.g  MLB, NBA, Boxing, Space Battle, Sub Hunt, B17, Space Spartans, Bomb Squad, Sea Battle, Truckin, Utopia.  Technically, it's possible because modern controllers have enough buttons but it's not good enough. 

 

 

Correct, I just use a Dualsense for that game and set it up for dual analog sticks. 

[jerseystyle]

4 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

After the second or third delay they should've honored refunds while still preserving the theoretical queue for when Amico would release. A lot of people held onto their spots especially for Founder Editions knowing they'd lose it otherwise. Tommy had implied there were over 300 people on the backlog even as of Feb. 2022 so "you're about to make someone very happy" by canceling. That statistic seemed inaccurate too, as I got on the backlog and then was able to pre-order FE within days.

 

It's now been six days since I opened a PayPal dispute and they still have not responded to that. The employee they had managing refunds and pre-orders was laid off and is no longer with the company.

Sorry to hear that. These people stole   money from folks during a global pandemic and recession. I hope their actions follow them for the rest of their working days. I think, if anything, we’ve been more respectful than they deserve.  I hope you get your money back.

[roots.genoa]

5 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

I'm surprised that you didn't call out his multiple typos ("didn't chose," "contined"). It's fun when non-native speakers are more careful with English than monolingual Americans.

I would probably have if the thumbnail appeared in the post. ?

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

 Tommy had implied there were over 300 people on the backlog even as of Feb. 2022 so "you're about to make someone very happy" by canceling. That statistic seemed inaccurate too, as I got on the backlog and then was able to pre-order FE within days.

Unfortunately that was a manipulation tactic to instill FOMO into people. Slowing the trickle of refunds was pretty important.

 

I hope you get their money back but I'm doubtful you get a response. I know people who have waited longer.

 

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

Republic/Fig has already been paid.  They took a percentage of money collected.  When do they have to deliver consoles to Republic/Fig, what happens if they don't.

 

At what point was their unit cost of manufacturing $100 and where did that come from?

Part of the Fig deal is that Fig gets 100 or so units themselves. They have not done that.

 

Oh they passed up on the opportunity to get stuff made around to where they would have $100 dollar in profit per console. After the SEC docs I bet they passed on that price because they were trying to be cheap and because that $100 would go directly to Sudesh.

[Hwlngmad]

6 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

I appreciated how Atari got back on track to their core business when they changed leadership. No more bizarre licensing deals with casinos or hotels (which looked really sleazy and desperate), no more aggressive litigation against sticker and t-shirt printers (they were losing more cases than winning lately), and no more jumping onto short-lived fads with bad product (aggressively monetized mobile games, crypto currency). I don't think they needed to make the VCS to get back to Recharged, Mania, and 50 but if they can support that weird platform without losing too much money, more power to them. 

 

Atari took $3M in crowdfunding but eventually delivered a product. I had a chance to buy one for cheap but declined, it's not something I need, but I'm glad some people seem pleased with what they got.

Indeed.  It is nice to see Atari (seemingly) back on track.  Definitely looking forward to Mania and 50.  Hopefully this is the start of a lot of good things to come.  But, I won't be holding my breath.

[Razzie.P]

3 hours ago, CurlyQ said:

Crap!  Seems like it already launched and I missed it  ☹️

[Hwlngmad]

4 hours ago, Rev said:

Back to the original topic then. 
 

Intellivision Trademark. 
 

Now that the TM is being (has been) renewed. What does everyone think that means for Intellivision Entertainment and launching the Amico.

 

 The newsletter basically says Amico is coming right?  

Will it launch? 

Will it be successful?

 

Who will buy one?

 

Will they bring uncancel ToeJam Earl and Earthworm Jim 4? Arguable the two most known franchises announced for Amico. (System sellers)

 

 

Throwing my two cents into the discussion.  My thoughts are:

 

1) I doubt it will launch.  If so, it will be very limited and no where near even what the Atari VCS has been able to do.

2) No.  It will not be successful.

3) Intellivision diehards a la the Atari VCS peeps and TT fan boys.  Apart from that, I don't think many will be wanting and/or willing to buy this.

4) No.  I think both those franchises are no longer going to be considered for the Amico.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

...

 

Part of the Fig deal is that Fig gets 100 or so units themselves. They have not done that.

 

Oh they passed up on the opportunity to get stuff made around to where they would have $100 dollar in profit per console. After the SEC docs I bet they passed on that price because they were trying to be cheap and because that $100 would go directly to Sudesh.

I doubt those units are what either Republic/Fig or Intellivision Entertainment are concerned with right now. There's no schedule to deliver them in the agreement or penalty if they don't. I think revenue share is their primary concern.

 

That loan happened in late 2021, I doubt their unit cost of manufacturing was  $100 anytime after that.  A web writer did estimate their cost of goods being $100 at one time. Which would be nice if it were true.  Their CFO said their cost of goods was never that.

 

There is a cost of manufacturing and the manufacturing loan is part of that.  For example if it were used to pay manufacturer fees or order components, it becomes part of that cost.  If there's a $100 gross profit per unit than all that is taken into account.  If there were interest on the loan than that would add to the cost but there's zero interest.  It's a great loan, obviously since it's by one of the directors who wants to help the company.

 

[jerseystyle]

33 minutes ago, mr_me said:

 

It's a great loan, obviously since it's by one of the directors who wants to help the company.

 

Dude. Dude. DUDE. PLEASE tell me you’re kidding. After two years of carrying the torch you can’t possibly believe anyone involved in this was trying to “help the company?” They scammed us. They scammed all of us. They stole money from low income YouTubers while bragging about cars and offices. Disgusting.

[Rev]

Will Holly and her two dogs ever get a return on her investment!?!?    Never!

[Rev]

11 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Dude. Dude. DUDE. PLEASE tell me you’re kidding. After two years of carrying the torch you can’t possibly believe anyone involved in this was trying to “help the company?” They scammed us. They scammed all of us. They stole money from low income YouTubers while bragging about cars and offices. Disgusting.

Any future upstart new retro game console trying to break into the market will be met with instant skepticism, and rightfully so. (Once they start public crowdfunding more so) 

[mr_me]

28 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Dude. Dude. DUDE. PLEASE tell me you’re kidding. After two years of carrying the torch you can’t possibly believe anyone involved in this was trying to “help the company?” They scammed us. They scammed all of us. They stole money from low income YouTubers while bragging about cars and offices. Disgusting.

Explain to me what's wrong with an interest free loan.  A director of a company is obligated to do what's best for the company.  This person also has a sizeable equity investment of his own at risk. All the founding partners personally have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested at risk.  Each investor invests according to their risk tolerance.

Edited July 13, 2022 by mr_me

[SteveTheColecoDude]

23 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Dude. Dude. DUDE. PLEASE tell me you’re kidding. After two years of carrying the torch you can’t possibly believe anyone involved in this was trying to “help the company?” They scammed us. They scammed all of us. They stole money from low income YouTubers while bragging about cars and offices. Disgusting.

 

Don't forget all the vacations Tommy, Hans and John have been flaunting over their social media while investors and customers are out of the money they were promised.

[SegaSnatcher]

50 minutes ago, Rev said:

Any future upstart new retro game console trying to break into the market will be met with instant skepticism, and rightfully so. (Once they start public crowdfunding more so) 

Absolutely, projects from upstart companies do not automatically deserve the benefit of the doubt from potential customers, it's up to said companies to prove themselves to us.  You can't just come in with zero track record and not expect strong skeptisim and criticism, and you'll only make your companly look bad by trying to downplay it or straight up get defensive over it. 

[jerseystyle]

56 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Explain to me what's wrong with an interest free loan.  A director of a company is obligated to do what's best for the company.  This person also has a sizeable equity investment of his own at risk. All the founding partners personally have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested at risk.  Each investor invests according to their risk tolerance.

Show me where TT invested his own money in an interest free loan. Show me where the founding partners put up their own money. I haven’t seen that and as far as I’m concerned they’re all thieves at this point. And I don’t mean where they’ve said they had- show me proud because there have been too many lies. Why haven’t refunds been honored?

Edited July 14, 2022 by jerseystyle

[mr_me]

We were talking about the manufacturing loan of 2021 that's repaid only when Amicos are shipped, $100 per unit.  You can look at the risk disclosure that was shared with Startengine investors earlier this year.  It has all the money each of the founding partners have put in and what they've received in compensation.