Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[MrBeefy]

Hey @kevtris what do you know about the process(s) about getting certs to sell products outside the US?

[MattPilz]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

Then why design the console where controllers lay on top of the console…

There were other Amico concepts that were less dependent on controllers being integral to them. https://imgur.com/a/ri3xnz1 I don't think the chosen design will look great for users who opt for the single controller option. A simple docking station accessory could've cut a lot of costs and internals out of the base product and saved money. I've never felt it was too much of an obligation charging via USB on my other consoles and now have an external contact charger for some systems.

 

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Since they've had issues sourcing components, costs with manufacturing and financing, they have shifted to a smaller scale release.  They've talked about a small production run locally to deliver some preorder units.

But these complications were well known by spring 2021 including the dispute with their original manufacturer as outlined in SEC. That's why it was peculiar they'd even tease a possible launch that year. They kept the hope alive for supporters even through late-fall with many believing they'd be getting their Founder's Edition or other pre-orders by Dec. 31, 2021. In April 2021 on a now deleted stream Tommy expressed intent of getting all 2,600 FEs out by October 10 and then 10,000 by Christmas, and 100,000 this year.

 

Do you think by mid-August 2021 Intellivision sincerely believed there was any chance they could still "deliver pre-ordered units by the end of the year" as noted in their pre-order update? Even in October when they started selling physical packs there were discussions of planning for an end-of-year launch, which probably enticed more users to buy the packs in preparation. To add, did they ever convey to the public what steps they'd actually taken between August and December to attempt to get any out the door and why they managed 0 in that amount of time, since they said they were focused and determined to do that?

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by MattPilz

[Razzie.P]

2 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

 But if your family is anything like mine, some try to get a "competitive edge"  The game engine would prevent this!  LOL

Mine just plain tries to cheat  ☹️

[Rev]

1 hour ago, 1980gamer said:

okay

 

I had a cradle and didn't use it.  Because I had the sleeves over the controllers and the motion plus add-on.

That was a PITA.  So I just used long life batteries.

We had the cradles. Worked pretty good.  

[Rev]

If I recall the holdup for manufacturing Amico was down to 4 parts. Its in an ex-ceo video or post. Or at least that was the excuse. I wonder if those 4 parts are available now?   Too bad the OS and games are not done, then this would be in manufacturing!

[1980gamer]

2 minutes ago, Rev said:

If I recall the holdup for manufacturing Amico was down to 4 parts. Its in an ex-ceo video or post. Or at least that was the excuse. I wonder if those 4 parts are available now?   Too bad the OS and games are not done, then this would be in manufacturing!

It would still be ready to manufacture, just not ready to release....

[1980gamer]

8 minutes ago, Rev said:

We had the cradles. Worked pretty good.  

The cradle was fine until adding the motion plus and even that wouldn't be terrible, but the sleeves over the controllers made it a real pain.

 

However, I liked the sleeve on the controller, so wattaugunnado?   I just googled wattaugunnado  it was not found,  I guess I need to add the TM to it!  LOL

 

[Rev]

30 minutes ago, 1980gamer said:

It would still be ready to manufacture, just not ready to release....

Its been apparently ready to manufacture for 2 years. 

[number6]

On 7/23/2022 at 8:45 PM, MrBeefy said:

Considering it appears that some of the Amico games struggle with the Amico hardware, I think the Evercade is a no go. I think this is Pete just wishing really hard.

 

It is funny how he says the Amico games aren't really physical. ?

One last thing about other h/w. 

(1)They've looked at this for over a year, perhaps since the outset

Timestamp 1:39 should do for this one

Also after mentioning the primary goal and the other systems the word "version" could mean something.

In other words, dismissing a platform as a candidate based on power could possibly be remedied by an actual new "version" of the s/w?

Not saying that's possible now, just taking this statement at face value.

Did I mention how informative this interview is? heh.

 

#6

[number6]

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

Two of their engineers said they passed fcc testing.  One specifically said fcc radiated emissions testing.  Neither of them said they submitted for fcc certification, one specifically said they did not after passing preliminary testing.  That's not mrinformation.

 

Last we heard they were producing some test units.  We don't know if that is with a manufacturer or not.  Test units are not commercial units and, if satisfied with them, are the units that can be submitted for fcc certification prior to the production of commercial units.

 

They say it lasts four to six hours.  That's not enough to cover the two events in Boston plus time played outside the events all on that day.

1:15:28 or so talks about bundling with charger unit

I'm curious. Did anyone do a transcript of the interview?

Sure seems like a lot of good information could simply just be read and would save time explaining over and over here.

All you need to do is remind people any post is a snapshot in time (vids too), so not everything said is going to apply -today-.

 

#6

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

There were other Amico concepts that were less dependent on controllers being integral to them. https://imgur.com/a/ri3xnz1 I don't think the chosen design will look great for users who opt for the single controller option. A simple docking station accessory could've cut a lot of costs and internals out of the base product and saved money. I've never felt it was too much of an obligation charging via USB on my other consoles and now have an external contact charger for some systems.

 

But these complications were well known by spring 2021 including the dispute with their original manufacturer as outlined in SEC. That's why it was peculiar they'd even tease a possible launch that year. They kept the hope alive for supporters even through late-fall with many believing they'd be getting their Founder's Edition or other pre-orders by Dec. 31, 2021. In April 2021 on a now deleted stream Tommy expressed intent of getting all 2,600 FEs out by October 10 and then 10,000 by Christmas, and 100,000 this year.

 

Do you think by mid-August 2021 Intellivision sincerely believed there was any chance they could still "deliver pre-ordered units by the end of the year" as noted in their pre-order update? Even in October when they started selling physical packs there were discussions of planning for an end-of-year launch, which probably enticed more users to buy the packs in preparation. To add, did they ever convey to the public what steps they'd actually taken between August and December to attempt to get any out the door and why they managed 0 in that amount of time, since they said they were focused and determined to do that?

Not to mention they would have those FCC certs done in advance of any manufacturing. That would be months to probably at least a half a year in advance of when they planned to sell them.

 

They knew they were missing dates long before they told anyone. Anytime the CEO gave a percentage the real number was zero. They didn't have the parts and/or certs.

 

A lot of their actions are to kick the can down the road to either get more money (physical products) or slow the trickle of refund requests (they knew they couldn't handle many).

 

They would be dumb beyond all reason to test the hardware after they've been manufactured.

 

10 minutes ago, number6 said:

One last thing about other h/w. 

(1)They've looked at this for over a year, perhaps since the outset

Timestamp 1:39 should do for this one

Also after mentioning the primary goal and the other systems the word "version" could mean something.

In other words, dismissing a platform as a candidate based on power could possibly be remedied by an actual new "version" of the s/w?

Not saying that's possible now, just taking this statement at face value.

Did I mention how informative this interview is? heh.

 

#6

I personally think "version" in this case ties with their, every game is "exclusive" on Amico idea. 

 

That being said it would be easy to get most the games on any platform. Evercade just has less RAM so I would see that as a limitation potentially for that platform specifically. Xbox, mobile, Switch, and PS would probably be rather simple. 

 

I think that was one of the more upfront without much hyperbole interviews they did 

[MrBeefy]

9 minutes ago, number6 said:

1:15:28 or so talks about bundling with charger unit

I'm curious. Did anyone do a transcript of the interview?

Sure seems like a lot of good information could simply just be read and would save time explaining over and over here.

All you need to do is remind people any post is a snapshot in time (vids too), so not everything said is going to apply -today-.

 

#6

"They say a lot of things"

 

This was the interview that Nick basically said the motion controls in Cornhole weren't good. Then Tommy a day or two later did that party at the office that he showed that terrible cornhole demo.

[mr_me]

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

Do you think by mid-August 2021 Intellivision sincerely believed there was any chance they could still "deliver pre-ordered units by the end of the year" as noted in their pre-order update? Even in October when they started selling physical packs there were discussions of planning for an end-of-year launch, which probably enticed more users to buy the packs in preparation. To add, did they ever convey to the public what steps they'd actually taken between August and December to attempt to get any out the door and why they managed 0 in that amount of time, since they said they were focused and determined to do that?

This is what they said:  "In spite of these supply hurdles hampering our ability to fill all orders, we are focused and determined to deliver pre-ordered units by the end of the year." ... "Of course, we will keep all of our customers and interested parties informed and updated on our continued progress."   I don't doubt their focus and determination but If I had one on preorder I wouldn't have been counting on it.  I'd look for more solid news.  They did get a manufacturing loan in later 2021 so there was some financing, but I don't have industry knowledge to know if it was possible for them to source a relatively small number of components. 

 

On November 23 there was an email pointing us to an updated faq that said "We are currently targeting the release of Amico for the first quarter of 2022."  However, that same email talked of pre-production and production, no mention of manufacturing.  I had issue with that as it only raised questions not answers.  What do they mean by pre-production? Are they in manufacturing?

 

37 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

...

They would be dumb beyond all reason to test the hardware after they've been manufactured.

That's why they had fcc compliance testing done last summer and passed, according to their engineers.  This is so there would be no surprises when they submit for fcc certification prior to manufacturing commercial units.

 

30 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

"They say a lot of things"

 

This was the interview that Nick basically said the motion controls in Cornhole weren't good. Then Tommy a day or two later did that party at the office that he showed that terrible cornhole demo.

That was a good demo.  Yes they weren't happy with the first version but the demo did a good job explaining the added control features coming to the new version.

Edited July 25, 2022 by mr_me

[number6]

39 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

"They say a lot of things"

 

This was the interview that Nick basically said the motion controls in Cornhole weren't good. Then Tommy a day or two later did that party at the office that he showed that terrible cornhole demo.

Understood. Thanks for the other look at "version". It was vague to me, hence why I added the question mark.

Well, I'm not going to timestamp all day but the interview discusses likely outcomes, selling the company, at least one issue that contains "if this goes south" etc.

It's just me but I've posted about J., Nick, the engineer because I surely understand people are more likely to take statements from other people at face value. I don't think I've begun any post with "Tommy said" to make a point. 'Nuff said.

 

Off-topic: now capital one wants to give me a discount on Amico goods. What did I do to deserve this? Sheesh!

 

#6

Edited July 25, 2022 by number6
humor?

[Rev]

December 2020. Amico is in “final stages” before “head into production” as quoted by the Ex-Ceo in the video below. 
 

Remember end of 2021 Amico was entering “formal production”. 

Should of been in production in July/August 2020……
 

Now end of 2022 will it be going into production a third time? 

 

 

 

[MrBeefy]

7 minutes ago, Rev said:

December 2020. Amico is in “final stages” before “head into production” as quoted by the Ex-Ceo in the video below. 
 

Remember end of 2021 Amico was entering “formal production”. 

Should of been in production in July/August 2020……
 

Now end of 2022 will it be going into production a third time? 

 

 

 

Their continual moving of goalposts but saying the same thing is why it is smarter to look at their actions than words. This is why I was harping on the FCC stuff a while ago. They've "been on the launchpad" since April 2020. Things like FCC are definitive. They have it or they don't. There is no partial credit for that stuff.

 

With no FCC certs at this time it is safe to assume 2023 is the earliest you will be able to get an Amico.

 

@kevtris this type of testing, tumbler they had, and batter tester they had wouldn't be part of an certs test would it?

 

 

[kevtris]

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Hey @kevtris what do you know about the process(s) about getting certs to sell products outside the US?

Well the way it generally works is you get emissions testing done at an independent testing lab.  i.e. intertek.  They can test to the most strict standard so that your stuff can be accepted in most/all countries.  That's generally how it works.  The FCC listing is as mentioned before just for the US.  There's a UK version, a euro version, etc.  i.e.

 

If you want to make your eyes bleed, here's a list of some of them.  Of course most of these won't be applicable to an amico (i.e. vehicle standards) but it gives you some idea of what there is.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_EMC_test_standards

 

As I mentioned, you generally test to the strictest for the group of countries and regions you will be shipping into.  You can then file your test report with the regions you wish to ship to and that should be that pretty much.  They also have more than just emissions-  since they are an intentional radiator they have to make sure their radios (bluetooth, wifi, nfc) won't rip up your neighbor's radios and TVs and interfere with their wifi and such which adds another layer now.  It's not just unwanted radiated emissions of the electronics.

 

Btw in the assembly video, I didn't see any shielding in there, so there's no way that thing will ever pass any kind of emissions testing IMO.  The controllers would need shielding too most likely to pass testing, and I don't recall seeing much if any.

 

I remember tommy was bragging about how they needed a laundry list of different certifications (40 AFAIR) and how they were doing all of them.  It just made me laugh pretty good because that's not really how it works per se.  You don't need to test your stuff 40 times.  It sure SOUNDS good to people who don't know how the process works and is another example of the way he tries to baffle with bullshit.

 

They also had another problem;  they would need to do safety testing on the thing because of the batteries in the controllers.  I wonder if they even started on that one.  Such tests would involve an examination of the charging circuit and if the batteries could be made to fail in various ways, like shorting out the charging contacts on the controllers (let's say you set one down and there's some loose change on the table that shorts it out).  I know they bought an expensive battery tester, but that isn't the kind of test I am talking about; that battery tester's job is to cycle the batteries to track their capacity over multiple charge/discharge cycles, and has nothing to do with safety.  This is the kind of test your battery supplier should and will do FOR you so aren't dropping $15K on a battery testing system you don't need.  Just yet another example of how tommy was like a toddler with a credit card released into a toys r us.

 

 

 

[kevtris]

43 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

@kevtris this type of testing, tumbler they had, and batter tester they had wouldn't be part of an certs test would it?

No, those testing devices have zero to do with any kind of certification.  It's just tommy thinking he needs those things for some kind of durability testing I guess.  It reminds me of a spot on PM magazine I saw as a kid.  They went to timex to see how they made watches.  In the video they show their testing lab, with all sorts of machines to test the watch's durability.  They had a machine that would continuously rotate and turn them for months on end to make sure the automatic winders wouldn't break, and impact testers, and other such things.

 

Tommy probably saw videos like that and thought that's how it's done and wasted 40-50 grand on all that shit.  It isn't too hard to design your controller to be "durable enough" via the plastic thickness and such to withstand some impacts.  That tumble tester was on the order of 15-20 grand.  We know the battery tester was around 15 grand- I found the same model and its accessories on the internet with pricing.  Those button testers were another 5-10 grand.  So that was a huge waste of money.  We never did see them use the tumble tester.  Tommy used it as kind of a showpiece when he did "tours" but never even turned it on. 

 

The testing labs do not test durability or longevity.  They care about how much RF your thing emits, and if it's emitting too much.  The safety labs just want to make sure it isn't going to start a fire or cause personal/property damage. 

[1980gamer]

8 minutes ago, kevtris said:

that battery tester's job is to cycle the batteries to track their capacity over multiple charge/discharge cycles, and has nothing to do with safety.  This is the kind of test your battery supplier should and will do FOR you so aren't dropping $15K on a battery testing system you don't need.  Just yet another example of how tommy was like a toddler with a credit card released into a toys r us.

A spec sheet is nice and all and I am certain the supplier would never exaggerate capacity or duty cycle.

I would hope they tested several suppliers batteries and not just read the spec sheet.

 

[MattPilz]

2 hours ago, Rev said:

December 2020. Amico is in “final stages” before “head into production”

I did enjoy the behind-the-scenes footage but you're right. 18 months later and the letter from Phil is basically the same wording as the description of that video from 2020, we can see similar wording a lot of times over the last 2.5 years.

 

April 6, 2020 - "As of today... April 6, 2020 we are still on track to launch a limited number by 10.10.2020. Our 'tooling' phase has already started."

 

December 2, 2020 - "During the final phase of hardware production one of the important things we do is stress test every aspect and element of the hardware."

 

December 22, 2021 - "Our pilot production plastics are in! We will use these plastics for the final verification of mass production tooling setup and processing. They will also be used in our initial run with our contract manufacturer..."

 

June 7, 2022 - "We have begun a test production run of Amico that includes every aspect of the product including packaging. This is first and foremost an assessment of our manufacturing approach and overall quality of the delivered product."

[Rev]

9 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

I did enjoy the behind-the-scenes footage but you're right. 18 months later and the letter from Phil is basically the same wording as the description of that video from 2020, we can see similar wording a lot of times over the last 2.5 years.

 

April 6, 2020 - "As of today... April 6, 2020 we are still on track to launch a limited number by 10.10.2020. Our 'tooling' phase has already started."

 

December 2, 2020 - "During the final phase of hardware production one of the important things we do is stress test every aspect and element of the hardware."

 

December 22, 2021 - "Our pilot production plastics are in! We will use these plastics for the final verification of mass production tooling setup and processing. They will also be used in our initial run with our contract manufacturer..."

 

June 7, 2022 - "We have begun a test production run of Amico that includes every aspect of the product including packaging. This is first and foremost an assessment of our manufacturing approach and overall quality of the delivered product."

 

Hopefully this is the *actual* launch pad. If Phil Adams, the new CEO, can finally pull the launch off he will have done the impossible. What the last CEO couldnt!      I wish him luck. 

 

(nice work finding the quotes)

Edited July 25, 2022 by Rev

[MrBeefy]

6 minutes ago, Rev said:

 

Hopefully this is the *actual* launch pad. If Phil Adams, the new CEO, can finally pull the launch off he will have done the impossible. What the last CEO couldnt!      I wish him luck. 

 

(nice work finding the quotes)

If I was a betting man, I'd say we would hear something similar towards the end of Q3 this year.

 

At best they make some this year to give out to their faithful YouTubers to fluff them up some more. But that isn't a launch even though those YTers will act as though it is.

[number6]

39 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

I did enjoy the behind-the-scenes footage but you're right. 18 months later and the letter from Phil is basically the same wording as the description of that video from 2020, we can see similar wording a lot of times over the last 2.5 years.

 

April 6, 2020 - "As of today... April 6, 2020 we are still on track to launch a limited number by 10.10.2020. Our 'tooling' phase has already started."

 

December 2, 2020 - "During the final phase of hardware production one of the important things we do is stress test every aspect and element of the hardware."

 

December 22, 2021 - "Our pilot production plastics are in! We will use these plastics for the final verification of mass production tooling setup and processing. They will also be used in our initial run with our contract manufacturer..."

 

June 7, 2022 - "We have begun a test production run of Amico that includes every aspect of the product including packaging. This is first and foremost an assessment of our manufacturing approach and overall quality of the delivered product."

Just in case you think the big change several months after April fits in. Since this appears after meetings/contacts to decide how to adapt to the pandemic, it's relevant imo.

August 2020

 

@MrBeefy

 

Hey! Someone else likes timelines!

 

#6

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

If I was a betting man, I'd say we would hear something similar towards the end of Q3 this year.

 

At best they make some this year to give out to their faithful YouTubers to fluff them up some more. But that isn't a launch even though those YTers will act as though it is.

How many words had the definition changed regarding the Amico?   
 

As you say, “launch” definition will likely change compared what we all know an actual console launch is.  
 

 

[kevtris]

1 hour ago, 1980gamer said:

A spec sheet is nice and all and I am certain the supplier would never exaggerate capacity or duty cycle.

I would hope they tested several suppliers batteries and not just read the spec sheet.

 

This isn't wal-mart or amazon.  When you're buying 10K-100K or more pieces, they tend to be pretty honest and up front about this sort of thing.  you can send samples to a lab for testing, and it isn't too expensive.  You don't need your own 15 grand tester for $500 in tests.  These types of batteries tend to be custom made for your application, and aren't off the shelf jobs.