End of cooperation with Lotharek

[tebe]

A friend I contact through a lawyer, a friend ? To the Atari community, Lotharek shows the middle finger.

Edited October 10, 2022 by tebe

[zbyti]

44 minutes ago, tebe said:

A friend I contact through a lawyer, a friend ? To the Atari community, Lotharek shows the middle finger.

 

[flashjazzcat]

11 hours ago, Stephen said:

Does this mean that all the new upgrades fjc just recently showed are now cancelled?

I certainly hope not, and since they're Sebastian's IP, he'd be at liberty to produce them in any way he sees fit in the unfortunate event of agreement not being reached with the current vendor.

 

It's ironic in the extreme that this happens just after I spent eleven months (with more work still required) rewriting the SIDE3 loader, justifying the immense investment of time and effort by proposing to deploy the same firmware on about four other new devices (development and debugging of said new hardware being greatly eased by the pre-existence of working firmware).

[candle]

also to make thing very clear - I never agreed on "exclusive rights to manufacture" - the only projects that Lotharek has exclusive right are these, he paid for and civil agreement explicitly said so (that would be side2, vbxe2 or u1mb to name major ones)

the fact that there is no other manufacturer of these project is just reflection of my lack of confidence in people

Lotharek was someone with some reputation - perhaps not cheap to buy stuff from, but he delivers and does that in long run

If he would like to discuss this issue, he would not repond hostily in the first place, and then would not back it up with lawsuits and other forms of intemidation

yet as I already wrote him - he is open to discuss things and work his way out. The only requirement I have is that he would do it through e-mail, so we could have everything in written form

Edited October 10, 2022 by candle

[zbyti]

18 minutes ago, candle said:

yet as I already wrote him - he is open to discuss things and work his way out. The only requirement I have is that he would do it through e-mail, so we could have everything in written form

[mikey]

So, basically sue threat for a 5Euro more in comission, based on the premise that a cooperator won't be able to ask for a raise or quit? If there is an agreement stating that, it is abusive and favorizes only one side of the deal. 

Or lawsuit is concering 'possible profit loss' over the chips bought in 1000pcs quantity? 

 

Dunno what to think about it, it is so sad, but asking for a raise is not an uncommon and bad practice, and most mature people negotiate conflicts, don't sue right away.

 

[TGB1718]

Guys, we just love 😍your stuff, I hope this can be resolved 🤞🏾

[Stefan Both]

You don't get justice in court - you get a judgement.
And if the judge is wise, the verdict surprises both sides.
Guys, no matter how difficult it is, it would be very wise for both sides if you settle out of court.
And if it hurts both sides, it's a good compromise.
 

[+SoulBuster]

Candle, The Brewing Academy makes good products.  I am using one of their NUC 576+ with Fujinet.  I wonder if a deal can be made with them?

[Gunstar]

15 hours ago, candle said:

Lotharek just text me,  that he is going to sue me for 70000pln

"because of this post"

 

I've been an avid customer/supporter of Lotharek and through him, you. But with such litigiousness on his part and such a arrogant attitude about changing a deal that should effect him in no way since he can just raise the prices and pass it on (if I'm paying $100 already for a product, $105 is NOT that big of a deal). He's just lost me as a customer. Hopefully I can legitimately purchase the VBXE and Rapidus through TBA instead? I was about to purchase them over the holiday shopping season...otherwise I will do without and move on in my Atari life... 

[+slx]

I admire both @candle for his very clever Atari improving gadgets and @lotharek for actually building and selling Atari (and other retro machine) stuff in what i always experienced to be a very professional manner (and within the common market). I do certainly hope that this conflict can be solved to the mutual benefit of both parties involved as well as the Atari community and would encourage both to go for mediation before engaging a court and dumping more money on lawyers than all this might be about.

 

I don't want to pour fuel into the fire by declaring allegiance to or termination of business with either side as I can't judge the grievances aired by either side. 

 

[candle]

Lotharek has exclusive rights to VBXE 2, so it's up to your decision, as for Rapidus, to my knowledge it is discontinued, but perhaps Lotharek or Pasiu would care to write something about it

 

[as...]

Gentlemen,
Can't be done on a private message?

Rapidus is very good stuff. Why will be cut from offer?

[JayoK]

Ok, well this has escalated, I suppose not a big surprise, but can I just repeat some of the messages here from the (very small) buying community, a modest increase in cost for royalties towards the end-user is not an issue. Well no potential purchaser here has complained, so let's take that as a positive from this.

 

At the same time, the huge efforts from @candle and @flashjazzcat are recognized and purchasers want to give back to this.  On top of it all, the quality of products from @lotharek is also acknowledged. 

Let's take the positive, the community has a good view of the offerings thus far.

So the polite request is please don't take this to the legal route, no-one will win (except the lawyer in fees). There is some history there that none of us outside the loop know, but I am hoping this is more an understanding and clarity of the position. Perhaps take the conversation off the general forum until a conclusion is found.

(BTW I'm a purchaser of VBXE, U1MB upgrade, 64K SRM and the FJC firmware, etc., so I've benefitted from all of your collective work, I realise there's costs involved for all parties)

Edited October 10, 2022 by JayoK

[+DrVenkman]

As an owner of multiple Candle/Lotharek devices (U1MB x 4, I think?; Incognito, VBXE; SIDE2, SIDE3 …) this thread makes me sad. Hope things get worked out.

[Matej]

@lotharek & @candle - please guys try to have beer or coffee or to talk to each other or one day trekking with families find way to each other. Guys You are both my most fav Atarians since Orneta, SillyVenture, Forever Party...

I think for western EU/US people 5usd/10usd(euro) higher price is ok. And for us from central Europe (Slovakia, Czech, Poland, Hungary) is ok too as we love our Ataris so much...

 

Simply everything goes up food, electricity, oil, housing etc. 447 million people in EU and sometimes I feel like in socialist Czechoslovakia. No chip industry. No good EU big techs. But people will pay 5-10euro extra during this time only I am sure. And for new products too. And maybe in 2023/2024 will be markets OK and prices stabile get low. Chips shortage will be OK etc.

 

I lost my ATARI friend XI like half year ago from my hometown during this strange pandemic/recession/conflict times. On highschool we was enjoying techno and drum and bass parties. I was near Gdansk on Orneta party with Him and it was best demoparty in my whole life. During University He talked to me to my soul to finish my Univesity to have career (CAD/CAM)... He called me to have coffee at start of pandemics or add me into His Skype group. I was too "busy" in real life work paying housing, helping parents. I am sad until now I didnt meet or Skype more often... Friendship is best.

 

Please guys Candle call to Lotharek. Try to find way to each other, normal talk...

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Matej

[Beeblebrox]

This has probably crossed people's minds but I wonder if there is a mutual and impartial acquaintance in Poland of both parties who might potentially consider mediating between Candle and Lotharek? This way it avoids the need for legal intervention and is more likely to result in an amicable agreement. 

 

Certainly IMHO at present things will only be stoked and exacerbated on a forum. 

 

Just my input. Again I mirror the sentiment of many who have so far posted on this topic thread -  in so far as I am a big supporter of these wonderful upgrades and the innovation and support provided on the Atari scene over the years and it saddens me also.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[flashjazzcat]

1 minute ago, Beeblebrox said:

I wonder if there is a mutual and impartial acquaintance in Poland of both parties who might potentially consider mediating between Candle and Lotharek?

XXL! You're needed.

[tuf]

Very impressed by the responses here.  I think it's everyone's intention to support both Candle and Lotharek (and FJC) professionally once (if) they work out their issues.  Inflation and contracts is a big problem right now.

[Tillek]

33 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

XXL! You're needed.

Dunno man... looked to me like he strongly took a side on this.

[ivop]

TIL: Never agree on a fixed amount of money but ask for a percentage instead, with a fixed absolute minimum. If prices go down, you are guaranteed a minimum. If prices go up, your fee goes up.

 

[Bikerbob]

9 minutes ago, Tillek said:

Dunno man... looked to me like he strongly took a side on this.

Well I would say that FJC has a side to be taken..

[+S.D.W.]

Personally I do not like Lotharek and stopped doing business with him quite a while ago. I have had issues with his attitude and the quality of some items purchased from him. I also still don't understand why I was charged VAT taxes when I live in the US. 

[ivop]

7 minutes ago, 917k said:

why I was charged VAT taxes when I live in the US.

Because he has to pay the equivalent in Poland to the government.

 

If I buy something in the US, I pay VAT and P&P. If the value is above a certain amount of money, I also pay BTW (Dutch equivalent of VAT) in The Netherlands and custom duties.

[JamesD]

Cancelling an existing contract would probably require a breach of the contract, or cancellation clause in the contract where terms of the cancellation were met.
Slander or libel lawsuits usually depend on whether what was said/written is factual.
I think you'd both be wasting money on lawyers because they would probably cost more than you have to gain, especially if you don't live in the same country.