Jaguar Homebrew VS Megadrive / Genesis Homebrew

[agradeneu]

11 hours ago, JagChris said:

If he thinks the potential customers opinions should be treated this way after seeing final products, then maybe crews should think twice about taking him on if sales are a consideration.

 

This is you in a nutshell.  I am not sure of which crews you are thinking, that would follow your "advice"?  

 

Look, various people who bought both games already voiced their opinion on both KoE and Astroite in a much  more in depht and competent way than you did. Both have their shortcomings and strenghts. Both selling comparable numbers of copies, looking at Songbird sales chart.

 

All you did was  to oversell Astroite by knocking on KoE and shove it down peoples throats.  

 

And finally, once again, the art direction was done by Phoboz himself. 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

IIRC Native was developed using either JagServer or BJL (don't remember which), which basically means that all of the data had to fit within the Jag's 2MB of RAM. In order to fit all of that data and still have enough RAM left over for the game to actually run, the graphics were all compressed, with the DSP being tied up with uncompressing data on the fly throughout the first level, which is why no sound was in that demo. Had they been using an actual development kit (no Skunkboard existed at the time, of course), things would've been a different story. If the Duranik guys come across this, I'm sure they can either confirm this or correct my faulty memory.

 

 

2 years ago or so I messaged with Johannes of Duranik about that and I think you are correct. 

 

[JagChris]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

All you did was  to oversell Astroite by knocking on KoE and shove it down peoples throats.  

 

And finally, once again, the art direction was done by Phoboz himself. 

It wasn't my intent to sell anything. OP wondered why Genesis homebrew looked better in his opinion, citing he had at least Asteroite to compare.them to.

 

I was trying to express what I was seeing as a very rapid evolution in art direction and while I've heard some people grumble about the KOE art direction I've heard very little in that direction concerning Asteroite. just trying to express in some cases it may be just from some groups getting their development legs under them.

 

Nothing more.

Edited January 14, 2023 by JagChris

[mdkdue]

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

IIRC Native was developed using either JagServer or BJL (don't remember which), which basically means that all of the data had to fit within the Jag's 2MB of RAM. In order to fit all of that data and still have enough RAM left over for the game to actually run, the graphics were all compressed, with the DSP being tied up with uncompressing data on the fly throughout the first level, which is why no sound was in that demo. Had they been using an actual development kit (no Skunkboard existed at the time, of course), things would've been a different story. If the Duranik guys come across this, I'm sure they can either confirm this or correct my faulty memory.

 

I'm starting to think you're simply trying to stir up trouble since you're making rather ridiculous claims here.

 

Some informative information, thank you, then followed by another toxic comment that I just really don’t see the need for.

 

If you have read this entire thread I think you will be able to gauge that I am not trying to ‘stir up’ anything.

 

Can people not just have an open discussion on something without it being sinister?

 

Really starting to think that there is some kind of personality disorder in play here. Why is it hyper intelligent people always have to find a hidden agenda behind everything?

 

Im done with this.

[mdkdue]

2 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

Too a look at the R-Type port, looks great.

 

Immediately notice a few things:

• The frame rate is inconsistent (slowdown when the rotating enemy appears)
  • LS is locked to 60fps (NTSC) / 50fps (PAL)
• The backdrop is something like 4 colours and fades in quite badly (genesis palette limits, I guess)
  • LS has a little bit more colour than this
• The enemies appear to shuffle along with the scroll, they don't appear locked to it. Looks a bit disjointed.
  • LS is frame locked with no slowdowns.
• The audio is chip-synth
  • LS in game audio is DJH0ffman. Saying no more.

Not knocking R-Type for any of it for that, as I said, it looks great, and good luck to the dev.

 - But its not doing anything the Strike engine couldn't handle with one arm tied behind its back.

 

Will I make R-Type?

 - Nope. Not gonna pander to the 'now you have to prove it' bollocks.

 

If people think the Jag can do better? then they prove it. Don't demand others do it for them. Cut the speculative, baseless horse shite and implied suggestions that other people have to prove them right or wrong.  All the he said/she said shite is tiresome. 

There is a comment on the video by the developer who states 

Im pretty sure I have not demanded anything from anyone, other than a tongue in cheek ‘please make this game’ to Agradeneu.

 

No one here needs to prove anything to anyone.

 

Again..why does everything have to turn sour here? Totally unnecessary.

[agradeneu]

16 minutes ago, mdkdue said:

Some informative information, thank you, then followed by another toxic comment that I just really don’t see the need for.

 

If you have read this entire thread I think you will be able to gauge that I am not trying to ‘stir up’ anything.

 

Can people not just have an open discussion on something without it being sinister?

 

Really starting to think that there is some kind of personality disorder in play here. Why is it hyper intelligent people always have to find a hidden agenda behind everything?

 

Im done with this.

Nobody is suggesting a personality disorder. Try to change perspective and understand that your sentiments come across slightly provocative. Vice versa as well.  

However I think we sorted that out and I hold no grudge against you personally. 🙂

I see where you are coming from: R Type is a proven classic, it has probably better art direction and more variety for sprites. But that is because they use the original arcade graphics assets (without proper license)

 

These things were already made clear and I hope we are not looping this discussion forever. There is not much to add. There is a point when someone needs to take the facts into account and reshape opinion or not. 

There is no need to start from ZERO over and over. I mean, this is the 1000th time we discuss Native in the context of homebrews and "which is better" threads and everybody grows tired of stating the same things over and over.  

 

If someone is new to the Jaguar, please do some proper research before making oversimplidfied assumptions, there is plenty of material available here and elsewhere to take into account. E.G. Iam baffled people never heard of Native, it is around since 1996.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

11 minutes ago, JagChris said:

 

 

Nothing more.

Denial in a nutshell. If you were discussing things impartially and reasonably, there would be no problem at all.

 

 

[JagChris]

OK. 

[mdkdue]

18 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Nobody is suggesting a personality disorder. Try to change perspective and understand that your sentiments come across slightly provocative. Vice versa as well.  

However I think we sorted that out and I hold no grudge against you personally. 🙂

I see where you are coming from: R Type is a proven classic, it has probably better art direction and more variety for sprites. But that is because they use the original arcade graphics assets (without proper license)

 

These things were already made clear and I hope we are not looping this discussion forever. There is not much to add. There is a point when someone needs to take the facts into account and reshape opinion or not. 

There is no need to start from ZERO over and over. I mean, this is the 1000th time we discuss Native in the context of homebrews and "which is better" threads and everybody grows tired of stating the same things over and over.  

 

If someone is new to the Jaguar, please do some proper research before making oversimplidfied assumptions, there is plenty of material available here and elsewhere to take into account. E.G. Iam baffled people never heard of Native, it is around since 1996.

 

Maybe it’s time to get this thread deleted.

 

I think we have established that YES the Jaguar can produce homebrew to the same level or better than the genesis, so that’s answered my original question.

 

We also established that ‘what looks better’ is a matter of opinion and down to personal preference, throwing technical specs around won’t change anyone’s views of what they prefer to look at. 
 

Talking to people like shite will not force them to change their opinion was my other takeaway.

[+CyranoJ]

The reason it instantly gets messy with certain people here is because we know it'll end that way with them and it just saves time.

[agradeneu]

6 minutes ago, mdkdue said:

Maybe it’s time to get this thread deleted.

 

I think we have established that YES the Jaguar can produce homebrew to the same level or better than the genesis, so that’s answered my original question.

 

We also established that ‘what looks better’ is a matter of opinion and down to personal preference, throwing technical specs around won’t change anyone’s views of what they prefer to look at. 
 

Talking to people like shite will not force them to change their opinion was my other takeaway.

Where did we or me talk to you like shite? Please fill me in!

 

BTW I argued with JagChris, not with you. Don't confuse that. 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by agradeneu

[mdkdue]

1 minute ago, agradeneu said:

Where did we or me talk to you like shite? Please fill me in!

I wasn’t referring to myself here, I should have made that clear, I was talking about interactions between other members, which we have already covered.

 

I hold no beef with you 👍🏻

[agradeneu]

Just now, mdkdue said:

I wasn’t referring to myself here, I should have made that clear, I was talking about interactions between other members, which we have already covered.

 

I hold no beef with you 👍🏻

If you mean JagChris, you don't know anything about the dynamics going on here for years.

Of course he chimed in to ruin everything with his antagonistic agenda. He always does, badmouthing us at other places. 

 

[+Sauron]

1 hour ago, mdkdue said:

Some informative information, thank you, then followed by another toxic comment that I just really don’t see the need for.

 

If you have read this entire thread I think you will be able to gauge that I am not trying to ‘stir up’ anything.

 

Can people not just have an open discussion on something without it being sinister?

 

Really starting to think that there is some kind of personality disorder in play here. Why is it hyper intelligent people always have to find a hidden agenda behind everything?

 

Im done with this.

This isn't the first time someone has come in here with this type of question. There's been countless others over the years who have come in here just to give "backhanded compliments" or outright insults to the homebrew developers, accusing them of making "8-bit games" for a 64-bit system, or other such nonsense. It's become beyond tiresome, and naturally that's made a lot of us old-timers a bit wary whenever yet another thread of this type is created. If your intentions here are NOT to insult the existing Jag homebrew devs, then my apologies.

 

[mdkdue]

18 minutes ago, Sauron said:

This isn't the first time someone has come in here with this type of question. There's been countless others over the years who have come in here just to give "backhanded compliments" or outright insults to the homebrew developers, accusing them of making "8-bit games" for a 64-bit system, or other such nonsense. It's become beyond tiresome, and naturally that's made a lot of us old-timers a bit wary whenever yet another thread of this type is created. If your intentions here are NOT to insult the existing Jag homebrew devs, then my apologies.

 

No that was definitely not my intention, i have stated this multiple times, did you read the whole thread?

 

I think I have also proved this by showing that I have imported every AA game available to the UK, at great expense, I even provided a picture of them. Albert knows how many orders I have placed over the last few months.

 

I accept the apology, thank you.

[+Sauron]

4 minutes ago, mdkdue said:

No that was definitely not my intention, i have stated this multiple times, did you read the whole thread?

 

I think I have also proved this by showing that I have imported every AA game available to the UK, at great expense, I even provided a picture of them. Albert knows how many orders I have placed over the last few months.

 

I accept the apology, thank you.

Yes, I read the whole thread, thankyouverymuch. Stating something doesn't make it true. Like I said, this thread was going in the same direction that many other discussions of this type have gone in the past. 

 

[mdkdue]

20 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yes, I read the whole thread, thankyouverymuch. Stating something doesn't make it true. Like I said, this thread was going in the same direction that many other discussions of this type have gone in the past. 

 

So buying all your games doesn’t make it true? I don’t know about you but I don’t usually spend £1000+ on something unless I like / want it and believe it’s worth paying for.
 

I certainly wasn’t trying to take this conversation in any kind of ‘direction’?

 

Again I repeat, why does there have to be the implication that there is some kind of hidden agenda here even after I have made it clear (I thought) that I was just asking a general question to the community members.

 

I don’t know how many more times I can say this or how much clearer I can be so let me say it one more time, and this is not said without meaning it or with any backhanded implication.

 

I FULLY SUPPORT EVERYTHING ALL THE EXTREMELY TALENTED DEVELOPERS IN THIS COMMUNITY DO FOR EVERYONE.

 

I THINK THE GAMES THEY PRODUCE ARE FANTASTIC AND I HOPE THEY CONTINUE TO BRING US MORE ENJOYMENT FROM THIS GREAT SYSTEM FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.

 

THANK YOU

Edited January 14, 2023 by mdkdue

[agradeneu]

28 minutes ago, mdkdue said:

So buying all your games doesn’t make it true? I don’t know about you but I don’t usually spend £1000+ on something unless I like / want it and believe it’s worth paying for.

 

THANK YOU

You revealed that lately, so I cant blame Sauron much. Honestly, some of your assertions were hard to swallow, but as a Jag dev you grew a thick skin.

 

The reality is, the average gamer will shit on Jaguar at every opportunity, as the average guy feels empowered by shitting on things, we all do that somewhow.

 

We are independent devs and do what we like and if people like what we do, it is a win win situation.

 

I dont give much on bullshit opinions, I focus on my goals and quality standards and working with like minded people is the way to go.

Sitting 9 hours straight per day during Gravitic "Crunch time" to complete the remaining levels was ambitious, as the whole game is.   

 

There is no shortage on people on the internet, screaming "16 bit " or "Game Gear graphics" randomly. I simply don't care anymore. 

 

If we would walk off tomorrow to produce games for more popular platforms like the Genesis, we would most likely get MUCH better sales and feedback as most homebrews are welcomed with open arms there. 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by agradeneu

[mdkdue]

3 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

You revealed that lately, so I cant blame Sauron much. Honestly, some of your assertions were hard to swallow, bit as a Jag dev you grew a thick skin. 

 

It was on page 3 of this thread, yesterday afternoon, so not really lately, and he did say he read the whole thing 😀

 

Anyway, I have nothing else I think I need to add to this conversation now.

 

Enjoy the weekend everyone.

[+LS650]

4 hours ago, mdkdue said:

Im done with this.

Proceeds to post six more follow-up posts.

🤣

Edited January 14, 2023 by ls650

[mdkdue]

7 minutes ago, ls650 said:

Proceeds to post six more follow-up posts.

🤣

Yes you are hilarious.

[Jag_Mag]

On 1/5/2023 at 3:56 PM, mdkdue said:

 

some of the work looks seriously impressive, especially The Simpsons Arcade port at the end.

 

 

 

I'm on an older computer so my recording software slows down but this runs smooth without recording.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Jag_Mag

[danny_galaga]

Pretty much what Cyranoj says. Megadrive/genesis sold say 30 million units. Even if we round Jaguar sales UP to 1 million, well...

 

I like both systems. I haven't got a home brew for either yet. I have homebrew carts for Lynx, 2600, C64, N64 and NES. 

[mdkdue]

4 hours ago, Jag_Mag said:

I'm on an older computer so my recording software slows down but this runs smooth without recording.

 

 

 

 

 Very cool 👍🏻

[alucardX]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:41 AM, agradeneu said:

Just for putting things into perspective, we got some nice feedback for "Jumping at Shadows", telling us that it could be confused with a modern indie game running on modern hardware.

I would like to buy a copy of Gravitic Mines when I get the chance. Just from looking at videos I prefer the art and graphics from Gravitic Mines more than Gravitar: Recharged. Even more impressive is that Gravitic Mines is running on hardware from 30 years ago.