agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, phoboz said: Attracting more gamers, which makes the console more interesting. Other development houses may become interested in the console as a result of that? Working with renowned and competent journalists/bloggers can help your games, but don't overestimate the "mainstream appeal" of the Jaguar. There is none. We appreciate the support from enthusiasts and retro magazines but it won't make the Jaguar suddenly a viable platform for development houses that need to run a business, pay bills and salaries. Edited January 26, 2023 by agradeneu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sauron said: You realize we're talking about the Jaguar, right? I doubt 30 years of a bad reputation is going to be erased by a few enthused gamers and/or game journos. Hell, even DieHard GameFan's overly enthusiastic take on Jag games back when it was a commercial product didn't help. All publicity is good for attention, even bad publicity. Like me a couple of years ago, I though I really wanted to check this thing out. It turned out to be quite niche and cool, so I started to fell sympathy for the whole scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, agradeneu said: Working with renowned and competent journalists/bloggers can help your games, but don't overestimate the "mainstream appeal" of the Jaguar. There is none. No, but I don't think stealing sprites and tiles from well known commercial games (Final Fight, Castlevania etc. like in the videos) makes a commercial grade game. It's just theft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, phoboz said: All publicity is good for attention, even bad publicity. Err, ok, whatever makes you happy. 😜 I would be surprised if you could find 10 like minded people though. Surely an audience development houses are thrilled about. Edited January 26, 2023 by agradeneu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, phoboz said: No, but I don't think stealing sprites and tiles from well known commercial games (Final Fight, Castlevania etc. like in the videos) makes a commercial grade game. It's just theft. context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, agradeneu said: context? The video in the first post of this thread. I stated like this also because I was not good with art, but I never dreamt of showcasing it (before getting the art replaced) PS. Except for one case really long ago, but I hope you won't find that. Edited January 26, 2023 by phoboz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, phoboz said: The video in the first post of this thread. The video about how game journalist are pushing the Jaguar because the have a knack for bizarre bad taste stuff? And software houses saying Yeah, lets burn some money! ? That video? Edited January 26, 2023 by agradeneu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, agradeneu said: The video about how game journalist are pushing the Jaguar because the have a knack for bizarre bad taste stuff? And software houses saying Yeah, lets burn some money! ? That video? This video (screenshot below), the first thing you see is a 100% steal from Castlevania. I pressed the navigation bar forward one time and saw the sprites from Final Fight. Then I gave up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 When learning about the Jaguar, I probably watched the Angry Video Game Nerd (which was recommended to me for some reason) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, phoboz said: This video (screenshot below), the first thing you see is a 100% steal from Castlevania. I pressed the navigation bar forward one time and saw the sprites from Final Fight. Then I gave up... Completely different topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, phoboz said: When learning about the Jaguar, I probably watched the Angry Video Game Nerd (which was recommended to me for some reason) Sorry, you are confusing. Iam out, bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, agradeneu said: Completely different topic. I already commented on the sidescroller (compared it to Salamander Life Force), and praised it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, phoboz said: I already commented on the sidescroller (compared it to Salamander Life Force), and praised it. I just did some scrambled eggs, tasty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, agradeneu said: I just did some scrambled eggs, tasty! Bon appetit 😀 Edited January 26, 2023 by phoboz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 46 minutes ago, phoboz said: All publicity is good for attention, even bad publicity. Like me a couple of years ago, I though I really wanted to check this thing out. It turned out to be quite niche and cool, so I started to fell sympathy for the whole scene. There's been a few people like you who have trickled into the Jag scene over the years, but it has never had an effect on "increasing" interest in the Jag as a game console with fun games. The Jaguar will never have the same level of support for it like the Genesis did, with its millions of units sold and reputation as one of the best game consoles of all time. Which is why commercial-level developers can make games for it and reasonably expect to make some money off of it (and even then, they end up having to port those games to other platforms in order to increase sales...). The same simply won't ever be true of the Jag, no matter how wishful our thinking is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) The "thriving" Jaguar homebrew developments depends on an handful of people. If those people retire or decide to leave tomorrow, it would be "game over" for quite a long time. Edited January 26, 2023 by agradeneu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Sauron said: There's been a few people like you who have trickled into the Jag scene over the years, but it has never had an effect on "increasing" interest in the Jag as a game console with fun games. The Jaguar will never have the same level of support for it like the Genesis did, with its millions of units sold and reputation as one of the best game consoles of all time. Which is why commercial-level developers can make games for it and reasonably expect to make some money off of it (and even then, they end up having to port those games to other platforms in order to increase sales...). The same simply won't ever be true of the Jag, no matter how wishful our thinking is. For me, I already felt done with both the SNES and the Genesis back in the day. Both excellent consoles for their time. When getting older I somehow wanted to discover more exotic things, like the Vectrex, Neo Geo, PC Engine etc. When I developed KnightEx (Joust clone) for the Vectrex, there was a discussion about the pricing of homebrew games. I think it was @ls650 who compared the price of my Vectrex cart against the the price for Joust on Atari Jaguar. I thought: - Wow, Joust must look really cool on a 64-bit system? That was one additional reason for me to develop an interest for the Jaguar (besides from all the bad publicity) Edited January 26, 2023 by phoboz 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, phoboz said: Attracting more gamers, which makes the console more interesting. Other development houses may become interested in the console as a result of that? I think we need more Jaguars. It sucks that getting one is so expensive thanks to all the asinine "influencers" that make videos about classic consoles and then cause the cost of used hardware to go up. Maybe a good working FPGA core would help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidGameR186496 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 19 minutes ago, alucardX said: I think we need more Jaguars. It sucks that getting one is so expensive thanks to all the asinine "influencers" that make videos about classic consoles and then cause the cost of used hardware to go up. Maybe a good working FPGA core would help? I think with the advent of BigPEmu, more people will be exposed to the Jaguar and Jaguar CD slowly but surely. Athough a FPGA equivalent would be very nice indeed. Perhaps as a stand-alone unit by Analogue or as a module for the Polymega. 2 hours ago, Sauron said: You realize we're talking about the Jaguar, right? I doubt 30 years of a bad reputation is going to be erased by a few enthused gamers and/or game journos. Hell, even DieHard GameFan's overly enthusiastic take on Jag games back when it was a commercial product didn't help. I will give GameFan credit for covering the Jaguar scene up until their last issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidGameR186496 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, phoboz said: When learning about the Jaguar, I probably watched the Angry Video Game Nerd (which was recommended to me for some reason) For me, My exposure to the Jaguar scene back in the early 2000s was via YouTube with users such as jvgsjeff and deanpook, in addition to AVGN and viMasterJag, as well as Jaguar Sector II with all those photos of the users' collections. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 40 minutes ago, KidGameR186496 said: For me, My exposure to the Jaguar scene back in the early 2000s was via YouTube with users such as jvgsjeff and deanpook, in addition to AVGN and viMasterJag, as well as Jaguar Sector II with all those photos of the users' collections. Where is viMasterJag these days? He and I shared a common exposure to the Jag. I remember buying mine because of a specific very excited sales person at a small game store in a shopping mall. If I remember correctly from correspondence with viMasterJag from years ago, he also knew of that guy. That dude must've sold so many Jaguars back in the day. His influence led a friend of mine to get one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, phoboz said: Why does everyone have to be a programmer, and/or an artist? What about dedicated gamers and reviewers? I don't think anyone ask a game journalist to be a programmer. Are they using that tired trope where you have to be a car manufacturer before you can judge a car again? As a consumer you can't look at a car and say this manufacturer clearly did a better job with the same or less materials and less time. Some car makers are clearly in a league of their own. Nope you're not a car manufacturer so don't believe your lying eyes. And it's a door that only swings one way. No one says that when they're getting praise for the car they built. Stop your praise! You're not a car manufacturer! You don't know! It's just something to hide behind. Edited January 26, 2023 by JagChris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/16/2023 at 10:53 AM, Senneman said: You won't be disappointed! Incredible Game!!! 🙏 Uh oh you guys can't make any judgements unless you're an artist or game designer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, JagChris said: Are they using that tired trope where you have to be a car manufacturer before you can judge a car again? No, but you would need at least some minimal understanding and knowledge about cars. And people will listen to respectable and reasonable opinions. However, all you do is presenting yourself like an utter idiot. Edited January 26, 2023 by agradeneu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, JagChris said: Uh oh you guys can't make any judgements unless you're an artist or game designer. He played the game. That is enough. Don't be stupid, ok? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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