DEANJIMMY Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: I've responded to a couple of posts there but I feel I might get a bit overbearing if I just jump around AA answering everything scattershot regarding 2600+ and I might just stay in this thread. Do you know what I mean? But maybe you should have a look... Will the 7800 emulation on the 2600+ have the same bad compatibility as reported there? That would be really bad. I have many carts for the 2600 and 7800. I agree to keep my 2600 Jr hooked up as PAL60 carts will have wrong colors and fully understand that 2600 Arm enhanced carts won't work. But 7800 carts original or homebrew should work with a good emulation... If not that would be a disappointment, really As far as I know A.R.T.I will get a release on AA store and it won't work on the 2600+? New 7800 titles might find new customers and could push the 2600+ as newbies might say, well that looks better than on an NES... the 7800 mode might attract more new customers than the 2600 mode, so Atari should take much care of it... Edited September 25, 2023 by DEANJIMMY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_M Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) On 9/22/2023 at 8:23 PM, Ben from Plaion said: We havent got any of these third party accessories to hand to test. If I get my hands on them I would try them out and report back. I think you are in the UK? I don't know where the development and testing is done for the 2600+, but I think there are many European collectors (including myself) willing to lend (some of) the missing games and/or accessories to the team if they are based in Europe. Many Europeans also have NTSC carts Edited September 25, 2023 by Fred_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 I believe PLAION is somewhere in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 On 9/20/2023 at 4:40 PM, Albert said: It's a toggle switch like on the original 2600. Ahh, I built a copy of Marble Craze yesterday and didn't think to test it. Skeleton+ should work fine, as it's a 4K game. Marble Craze is a 32K (F4) game, and I'd expect it to work as well, but I will confirm it at some point. ..Al Thank you very much sir. I remembered skeleton was rather small. If marble craze works ill need to order another paddle, if they ever come back up. Hopefully they'll sell some sans cart at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Video said: Thank you very much sir. I remembered skeleton was rather small. If marble craze works ill need to order another paddle, if they ever come back up. Hopefully they'll sell some sans cart at some point. You need 2600 paddles? I have about a hundred sets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 3 hours ago, bent_pin said: That's why I asked for a source on this permission of which you speak. My search, albeit brief, did not yield this permission. It has to be licensed in some way. Unless I see something specifically releasing it, I tend to assume that it's still not available for public use; even if it's in an emulator. The ole' everyone else was doing it defense doesn't carry much weight against an infringement suit. While there are many reputable emulator programs, there are many that could be seen as grey-area or even other than reputable. I believe the software is owned by a religious company that stated people may use the SuperCharger software starting with the Stella Gets a new Brain CD, that would include the ROM in the SuperCharger. It wouldn't be a problem to include the code in an emu a la Gopher, but you cannot GPL that section of the distro. You could double check to be sure, there may be a disclaimer with the CD if someone has more details. I agree you should always get permission to use someones IP. What do you call cheese that's not your cheese? Nacho cheese 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 38 minutes ago, Mr SQL said: I believe the software is owned by a religious company that stated people may use the SuperCharger software starting with the Stella Gets a new Brain CD, that would include the ROM in the SuperCharger. It wouldn't be a problem to include the code in an emu a la Gopher, but you cannot GPL that section of the distro. You could double check to be sure, there may be a disclaimer with the CD if someone has more details. I agree you should always get permission to use someones IP. What do you call cheese that's not your cheese? Nacho cheese I contacted them for the licensing details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 On 9/22/2023 at 11:29 AM, Ben from Plaion said: - Which emulator is used for the 7800? The 7800 developer and beta tester community would prefer "a7800" emulator to be used. It was forked from Dan's original Mame a7800 driver, and is nearly cycle accurate, allows for mid-scanline graphical changes, has faithful pokey emulation, ym2151 emulation, etc. Prosystem 1.3. I was advised to use a7800 and we did try, but I dont beleive it was fully compatible with arm based chips like the Rockchip 3128 we use. Hi @Ben from Plaion and @TrogdarRobusto, I would like to inform you that @Trebor tested 110 games for 7800 under ProSystem 1.3 Core via RetroArch. Most are 7800 Homebrews games, including some on sale in the AA store. Test Results: - 20 games = Black screen - 6 games = No audio / No music / No sound (POKEY or TIA) - 36 games = Works with issue: graphic issue graphic corruption speed / timing issue enemies absent player will not move sound issue POKEY notes incorrect - 1 game = Needs light gun support (Sentinel) - 49 games = Works without issue Spoiler Test Results under ProSystem 1.3 Core via RetroArch: 7ix = Works without issue 1942 = Black screen 2048 = Graphic issue throughout A.R.T.I. = Black screen A Roach in Space - Part 2 = Works without issue Ah Zombies = Graphic issue throughout Alpha Race = Works without issue Apple Snaffle = Some graphic corruption after screen scrolls Arkanoid = Black screen Armor Attack II = Works without issue Asteroids Deluxe = Speed/Timing Issue present Astro Blaster = Works without issue Astro Fighter = Works without issue Attack of the Petscii Robots = Black screen Baby Pac-Man = Graphic issue pinball screen Beef Drop = POKEY sound not present, enemies absent, player will not move Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest = No POKEY music or TIA sound effects present Bernie and the Cubic Conundrum = Graphic issue throughout Bernie and the Tower of Doom = Black screen BlocDrop = Works without issue Block'em Sock'em = Black screen BonQ = Works without issue Cannon in D - D for Defense = Work without issue Cartesian Chaos = Graphic issue throughout Crazy Brix = Brix display incorrectly Crazy Otto = Works without issue Danger Zone = Graphic issue throughout Death Merchant = Graphic issue throughout Donkey Kong PK = No audio DopeWars = Graphic issue throughout Dragon's Cache = Works without issue Dragon's Descent = Works without issue Dragon's Havoc = Graphic issue throughout Drelbs = Works without issue Drone Patrol = Black Screen Drunk Witch = Works without issue Dungeon Stalker = Works with issue E.X.O. = Black screen FailSafe = Works without issue FlappyBird = Works without issue Freeway = Graphic issue throughout Frenzy (w-Berzerk) = Works without issue Froggie = Some POKEY notes incorrect Frogus = Black screen Galaxian = Plays without issue Game of the Bear - Polar Opposites = Works without issue Get Lost = Works without issue Ghosts'n Goblins = Graphic issue throughout Graze Suit Alpha = Works without issue Harpy's Curse = Black screen Harry's Hen House = Works without issue Heartlight = Works without issue I.C.B.M. = Graphic issue throughout Jacks or Better = Graphic issue throughout Jr Pac-Man = Works without issue K.C. Munchkin = Works without issue Keystone Koppers = Black screen Klax = Black screen Knight Guy - Quest for Something = Works without issue Knight Guy in Low Res World - Castle Days = Works without issue Knight Guy on Board - 30 Squares of Fate = Works without issue Legend of Silverpeak = Black screen Lunar Patrol = Graphic corruption throughout Meteor Shower = Works without issue Millie & Molly = Black screen Missing In Action = Graphic issue throughout Moon Cresta = Works without issue Ms. Pac-Man Twin = Works without issue Ninjish Guy - Perilous Island = Works without issue Oozy the Goo - Gaiden = Works without issue Pac-Man - Energy Drink Edition = Graphic issue with sprite bottom of maze Pac-Man Collection - 40th Anniversary Edition = Black screen Pac-Man Collection - 40th Anniversary Edition (Short Mazes) = Black screen PentaGo = No POKEY sound and graphic issue throughout Pirate Cove = Works without issue Plink = Graphic issue throughout Plumb Luck DX = Works without issue Plutos = Graphic issue throughout Poetiru = Works without issue Pong = Graphic issue throughout Popeye = No POKEY sound and graphic issue throughout RatTrap = No POKEY sound and graphic issue throughout Rescue On Fractalus = Black screen after starting game ReZolve = Works without issue Rikki and Vikki (No Music) = Works without issue Rip-Off = Works without issue Robbo = No sound Robots Rumble = Black screen Santa Simon = Works without issue Scramble = Sound issue Sentinel = Needs light gun support Serpentine = Black screen Sick Pickles = Works without issue Sirius = Works without issue Slide Boy in Maze Land = Works without issue Space Duel = Speed/Timing Issue Space Invaders = Works without issue Space Peril! = Graphic issue throughout Space Race = Graphic issue throughout Spire of the Ancients = Graphic issue throughout Super Circus AtariAge = Works without issue Super Pac-Man = Works without issue T:ME Salvo = Works without issue Touchdown Challenge = Graphic issue throughout Tunnels of Hyperion = Works without issue UniWarS = Works without issue Wasp! = Works without issue Wizard's Dungeon = No background sound and graphic issue throughout Wordle = Graphic corruption - letter selection area Worm! = Works without issue From the 7800 Test suite: - Tests 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13, 15, 16, 17 fail. Not even close. The accuracy and timings are very bad (see here). Regarding some Original Retail, @Trebor reported graphical issues on Ace of Aces, Commando, Dig Dug, Double Dragon, Kung-Fu Master, Xevious. Also, Asteroids, Commando, Karateka, One-On-One Basketball, demonstrate timing-speed issues (pretty obvious for the latter two titles when viewing the demo/intros). Not a great showing for the 7800 to state the least. Best we can hope for is Atari integrating the updates readily available via JS7800 posted sources, which several from the community have assisted with updating. Thank you for your answers and kind attention. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 8 hours ago, Bakasama said: I believe PLAION is somewhere in Germany. Close. Austria. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSetIlly Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 18 hours ago, Mr SQL said: I'm pretty sure they released it so people could enjoy the technology. They may retain the rights but would not have an objection with the implementation or the BIOS wouldn't be present in Gopher. Just to be clear, the original Supercharger BIOS can be used with Gopher2600 but it's not part of the emulator binary or supplied as part of the release. The user of the emulator must supply the BIOS themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Karnov Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 17 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: Initial 1.0 software that launch units ship with is default 720p 60Hz. I know people here will want 50Hz for obvious reasons. I have been testing a 50Hz build today see image. For certain this - alongside maximising cartridge compatibility - is priority in a 1.1 software update. If this means that PAL carts run at full speed, then that's great news. If there is a system update, will it include a toggle between 50Hz and 60Hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 13 hours ago, Fred_M said: I think you are in the UK? I don't know where the development and testing is done for the 2600+, but I think there are many European collectors (including myself) willing to lend (some of) the missing games and/or accessories to the team if they are based in Europe. Many Europeans also have NTSC carts I'm UK based. Thanks for the kind offer. I'll DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 8 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: Hi @Ben from Plaion and @TrogdarRobusto, I would like to inform you that @Trebor tested 110 games for 7800 under ProSystem 1.3 Core via RetroArch. Most are 7800 Homebrews games, including some on sale in the AA store. Test Results: - 20 games = Black screen - 6 games = No audio / No music / No sound (POKEY or TIA) - 36 games = Works with issue: graphic issue graphic corruption speed / timing issue enemies absent player will not move sound issue POKEY notes incorrect - 1 game = Needs light gun support (Sentinel) - 49 games = Works without issue Reveal hidden contents Test Results under ProSystem 1.3 Core via RetroArch: 7ix = Works without issue 1942 = Black screen 2048 = Graphic issue throughout A.R.T.I. = Black screen A Roach in Space - Part 2 = Works without issue Ah Zombies = Graphic issue throughout Alpha Race = Works without issue Apple Snaffle = Some graphic corruption after screen scrolls Arkanoid = Black screen Armor Attack II = Works without issue Asteroids Deluxe = Speed/Timing Issue present Astro Blaster = Works without issue Astro Fighter = Works without issue Attack of the Petscii Robots = Black screen Baby Pac-Man = Graphic issue pinball screen Beef Drop = POKEY sound not present, enemies absent, player will not move Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest = No POKEY music or TIA sound effects present Bernie and the Cubic Conundrum = Graphic issue throughout Bernie and the Tower of Doom = Black screen BlocDrop = Works without issue Block'em Sock'em = Black screen BonQ = Works without issue Cannon in D - D for Defense = Work without issue Cartesian Chaos = Graphic issue throughout Crazy Brix = Brix display incorrectly Crazy Otto = Works without issue Danger Zone = Graphic issue throughout Death Merchant = Graphic issue throughout Donkey Kong PK = No audio DopeWars = Graphic issue throughout Dragon's Cache = Works without issue Dragon's Descent = Works without issue Dragon's Havoc = Graphic issue throughout Drelbs = Works without issue Drone Patrol = Black Screen Drunk Witch = Works without issue Dungeon Stalker = Works with issue E.X.O. = Black screen FailSafe = Works without issue FlappyBird = Works without issue Freeway = Graphic issue throughout Frenzy (w-Berzerk) = Works without issue Froggie = Some POKEY notes incorrect Frogus = Black screen Galaxian = Plays without issue Game of the Bear - Polar Opposites = Works without issue Get Lost = Works without issue Ghosts'n Goblins = Graphic issue throughout Graze Suit Alpha = Works without issue Harpy's Curse = Black screen Harry's Hen House = Works without issue Heartlight = Works without issue I.C.B.M. = Graphic issue throughout Jacks or Better = Graphic issue throughout Jr Pac-Man = Works without issue K.C. Munchkin = Works without issue Keystone Koppers = Black screen Klax = Black screen Knight Guy - Quest for Something = Works without issue Knight Guy in Low Res World - Castle Days = Works without issue Knight Guy on Board - 30 Squares of Fate = Works without issue Legend of Silverpeak = Black screen Lunar Patrol = Graphic corruption throughout Meteor Shower = Works without issue Millie & Molly = Black screen Missing In Action = Graphic issue throughout Moon Cresta = Works without issue Ms. Pac-Man Twin = Works without issue Ninjish Guy - Perilous Island = Works without issue Oozy the Goo - Gaiden = Works without issue Pac-Man - Energy Drink Edition = Graphic issue with sprite bottom of maze Pac-Man Collection - 40th Anniversary Edition = Black screen Pac-Man Collection - 40th Anniversary Edition (Short Mazes) = Black screen PentaGo = No POKEY sound and graphic issue throughout Pirate Cove = Works without issue Plink = Graphic issue throughout Plumb Luck DX = Works without issue Plutos = Graphic issue throughout Poetiru = Works without issue Pong = Graphic issue throughout Popeye = No POKEY sound and graphic issue throughout RatTrap = No POKEY sound and graphic issue throughout Rescue On Fractalus = Black screen after starting game ReZolve = Works without issue Rikki and Vikki (No Music) = Works without issue Rip-Off = Works without issue Robbo = No sound Robots Rumble = Black screen Santa Simon = Works without issue Scramble = Sound issue Sentinel = Needs light gun support Serpentine = Black screen Sick Pickles = Works without issue Sirius = Works without issue Slide Boy in Maze Land = Works without issue Space Duel = Speed/Timing Issue Space Invaders = Works without issue Space Peril! = Graphic issue throughout Space Race = Graphic issue throughout Spire of the Ancients = Graphic issue throughout Super Circus AtariAge = Works without issue Super Pac-Man = Works without issue T:ME Salvo = Works without issue Touchdown Challenge = Graphic issue throughout Tunnels of Hyperion = Works without issue UniWarS = Works without issue Wasp! = Works without issue Wizard's Dungeon = No background sound and graphic issue throughout Wordle = Graphic corruption - letter selection area Worm! = Works without issue From the 7800 Test suite: - Tests 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13, 15, 16, 17 fail. Not even close. The accuracy and timings are very bad (see here). Regarding some Original Retail, @Trebor reported graphical issues on Ace of Aces, Commando, Dig Dug, Double Dragon, Kung-Fu Master, Xevious. Also, Asteroids, Commando, Karateka, One-On-One Basketball, demonstrate timing-speed issues (pretty obvious for the latter two titles when viewing the demo/intros). Not a great showing for the 7800 to state the least. Best we can hope for is Atari integrating the updates readily available via JS7800 posted sources, which several from the community have assisted with updating. Thank you for your answers and kind attention. I spoke with the software developer said he said launch units ship with 1.3E 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Dr Karnov said: If this means that PAL carts run at full speed, then that's great news. If there is a system update, will it include a toggle between 50Hz and 60Hz? Toggle on boot seems the easiest mothod. Should have more info next week. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 On 9/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, swlovinist said: Thanks for answering questions Ben, I have one to ask. Can a Sega Genesis or Sega Master System controller be used on this console out of the box? Thanks! Its a no John, pinouts are different. Amusingly the factory immediately offered to make an adapter that we could sell! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: I spoke with the software developer said he said launch units ship with 1.3E June 6, 2009 - wow. A lot of issues were noted since that release. Really hoping there is a firmware update sooner than later. To be clear, this means the 2600+ will perform at least as poorly, though likely worse than, the test results shown with RetroArch. Despite what is posted in the respective info file for the core plug-in, RetroArch has received some updates since the v1.3e, June 2009 release. 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Trebor said: June 6, 2009 - wow. A lot of issues were noted since that release. Really hoping there is a firmware update sooner than later. To be clear, this means the 2600+ will perform at least as poorly, though likely worse than, the test results shown with RetroArch. Despite what is posted in the respective info file for the core plug-in, RetroArch has received some updates since the v1.3e, June 2009 release. I've asked the developer to look at what you've suggested and I'll report back, thanks 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: I've asked the developer to look at what you've suggested and I'll report back, thanks There are at least two later builds (1.3f, 1.3g) which can be found here at AtariAge 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 If need be, I can make specialized versions of the PMC40th games that don't check for Yamaha... as that is what causes the black screen in ProSystem... Although I don't know who would make carts at this point. If there's anything I can do to help regarding the 7800 side and my games, please let me know. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: On 9/22/2023 at 3:55 PM, swlovinist said: Thanks for answering questions Ben, I have one to ask. Can a Sega Genesis or Sega Master System controller be used on this console out of the box? Thanks! Its a no John, pinouts are different. Amusingly the factory immediately offered to make an adapter that we could sell! Hi @Ben from Plaion, did you actually try this out? While the pinouts are indeed different, a Sega Genesis/Master System controller can be used without adapter on the original Atari 2600. The directional pad works without problems and the 'B' button works as fire button. Some Atari 2600 homebrew games (e.g. Lode Runner) even use the 'C' button as secondary button. So I wouldn't be surprised if a Sega Genesis controller just works on the Atari 2600+. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 24 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: There are at least two later builds (1.3f, 1.3g) which can be found here at AtariAge I just wonder why no-one took the effort to bring the changes from 1.3f and 1.3g back to the prosystem-libretro repo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 Regarding POKEY audio, most homebrews expect to address the chip at $450, which has become the defacto standard. The old Prosystem emulator only supports POKEY at $4000, as implemented with the Ballblazer cart. Games that support TIA or POKEY and try to detect a physical POKEY will likely fail due to inaccurate emulation. I remember looking at the Froggie code years ago and it would write to POKEY at both $450 and $4000, which is probably why it works, though the bad notes indicate the POKEY emulation needs improvement. edit: I should add that I would be thrilled if the 2600+'s 7800 emulation supported POKEY at $450 because then all those Donkey Kong XM (no POKEY in cart) carts will finally work with sound. edit2: Using all the updates made in JS7800 seems to be the solution. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: I've asked the developer to look at what you've suggested and I'll report back, thanks 1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: There are at least two later builds (1.3f, 1.3g) which can be found here at AtariAge "ProSystem 1.3e *Insert RetroArch version here* ProSystem 1.3f ProSystem 1.3g *Insert JS7800 version here* Other builds stating 1.3e will be similar to RetroArch, contaning perhaps a hack or fix for one or two games, but overall compatibility is v1.3e. JS7800 sources really need to be leveraged for 2600+." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 55 minutes ago, Dionoid said: Hi @Ben from Plaion, did you actually try this out? While the pinouts are indeed different, a Sega Genesis/Master System controller can be used without adapter on the original Atari 2600. The directional pad works without problems and the 'B' button works as fire button. Some Atari 2600 homebrew games (e.g. Lode Runner) even use the 'C' button as secondary button. So I wouldn't be surprised if a Sega Genesis controller just works on the Atari 2600+. No, I cant find a megadrive controller, information I posted came from the PCB guy at the factory. I will try later this week myself with a real pad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 1 hour ago, PacManPlus said: If need be, I can make specialized versions of the PMC40th games that don't check for Yamaha... as that is what causes the black screen in ProSystem... Although I don't know who would make carts at this point. If there's anything I can do to help regarding the 7800 side and my games, please let me know. That would be great. I can get it on a cart. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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