The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[Dr Karnov]

4 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Toggle on boot seems the easiest mothod. Should have more info next week.

For me, running PAL carts at full speed is a better option than running them at authentic PAL region 7800 speed, if that's slower than NTSC.

 

Were some 7800 PAL versions optimised to run at correct speed, or were they all slower?

[Dionoid]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:08 PM, Blinky said:

Maybe my question was missed

 

@Ben from Plaion @TrogdarRobusto I'd really like to know if PAL games output HDMI 50Hz or not.

Hi @Blinky, what would be the benefit of having PAL games output as HDMI 50Hz? Will that make the gameplay look more smooth, as the PAL cartridges themself also generate frames at 50Hz? Just wondering.

[TrogdarRobusto]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:54 AM, Trebor said:

Truly hope it is given some strong consideration and integration. 

As mentioned in this post, what is furnished by leveraging ProSystem 1.3 core files has many significant and obvious issues.

It would be a very poor showing of the 7800 system and library if left as is currently.

 

Hoping @TrogdarRobusto is involved as well, from a community and public relations perspective.

I am absorbing all of this discussion ... Ben is better pled to answer these questions re compatibility, etc. but I am taking nots for sure.

[Dr Karnov]

3 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

I am absorbing all of this discussion ... Ben is better pled to answer these questions re compatibility, etc. but I am taking nots for sure.

I'm taking nots too 😉

[PacManPlus]

I'm also taking ands and ors, just to be safe

[PacManPlus]

41 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

That would be great. I can get it on a cart.

PM sent with non-Yamaha versions of bins.  Not sure if this was mentioned, but they auto-detect NTSC or PAL.

[tep392]

40 minutes ago, Dr Karnov said:

For me, running PAL carts at full speed is a better option than running them at authentic PAL region 7800 speed, if that's slower than NTSC.

 

Were some 7800 PAL versions optimised to run at correct speed, or were they all slower?

I live in an NTSC region and have wondered about this as well.  It's easy for the programmer to adjust the colors and number of scan lines to make a game PAL compatible, but adjusting the speed of moving objects to compensate for the slower frame rate takes more effort.  It sounds like they (Atari) didn't bother with that detail.  This slow down of the game also gives an advantage to the PAL gamer in our high score contests.

[MarcinJ]

1 hour ago, PacManPlus said:

If need be, I can make specialized versions of the PMC40th games that don't check for Yamaha...  as that is what causes the black screen in ProSystem... Although I don't know who would make carts at this point.

 

If there's anything I can do to help regarding the 7800 side and my games, please let me know.

I would buy those carts. Your games are really fantastic, but I cannot buy the cartridges anymore. 😩

[PacManPlus]

Thank you for those kind words - it would be incredible if Atari could get license from Namco for these to be officially produced.  Apparently from what I understand Namco also obtained license from Nittoh and various other bootleg versions after suing them.  So I believe all versions in PMC could be licensed at one shot.

Edited September 26, 2023 by PacManPlus

[Dionoid]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:02 PM, Blinky said:

On 9/17/2023 at 12:21 PM, Dionoid said:

on bol.com the Atari 2600+ is only discoverable through a direct link from Atari.com

I noticed that too. I also noticed there isn't a CX40+ Joystick available.

Yes, the CX40+ joystick is available on bol.com, but just like the Atari 2600+ you have to know the specific product-page link, as this product is also hidden/unlisted. I think this is unintentional and caused by a wrong product-feed into bol.com's backend system (probably someone forgot to escape the "+" character in the feed). I already reported this to Atari support some weeks ago, but didn't get a response.

 

So if you want to order a new CX40+ joystick from bol.com, please use this direct link:

https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/cx40-joystick-controller-atari-2600/9300000158911246/

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dionoid

[desiv]

3 minutes ago, PacManPlus said:

Thank you for those kind words - it would be incredible if Atari could get license from Namco for these to be officially produced.  Apparently from what I understand Namco also obtained license from Nittoh and various other bootleg versions after suing them.  So I believe all versions in PMC could be licensed at one shot.

I was thinking that would be awesome, but probably impossible with the murky license situation I think (I don't know) I've heard about...

But if that were a thing...  (Atari:  please note!)

 

I would buy....

 

If that is a thing that needs some type of "Are you interested" poll....  I am interested...

 

Those versions are just incredible and I think could be system sellers too... 
Yeah, they are that good...  (IMHO)

[ForceInfinity]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:59 AM, zzip said:

No different than if you yanked the cart out of the running system..   Well maybe slightly different if it tries to execute new code that's been inserted in it's place,  you might get some interesting effects, but most likely the system just hangs but will be fine after a reset.

 

I see your point though it's a little unprofessional on a legacy 2600 to hang the system to change games.   

 

 

Well if you managed to get the 2600 executing code exclusively in its ram space, you could pull the cart without powering it off and it’ll still run.   I know Thomas Jentzsch did a proof of concept once with a pong demo.  It’s really neat trick that he managed

 

 

[Blinky]

3 hours ago, Dionoid said:

what would be the benefit of having PAL games output as HDMI 50Hz?

Animations of sprites/missles (especially those that move at 1 pixel per frame) will be more smooth.

 

When displaying a PAL50 game on 60HZ display every 5 frames an extra (double) frame is displayed. This causes stutter/jitter in the animation.

 

Try running  PAL and NTSC versions of Dodge Em. You can easily notice the issue by just watching the cars in attract mode.

 

3 hours ago, Dionoid said:

just like the Atari 2600+ you have to know the specific product-page link

I thought It might be like something that but I couldn't find a direct link for the joystick.

 

Thanks for sharing the link. How did you find it?

 

[+Defender_2600]

2 hours ago, PacManPlus said:

it would be incredible if Atari could get license from Namco for these to be officially produced.  Apparently from what I understand Namco also obtained license from Nittoh and various other bootleg versions after suing them.  So I believe all versions in PMC could be licensed at one shot.

1 hour ago, desiv said:

I was thinking that would be awesome, but probably impossible with the murky license situation I think (I don't know) I've heard about...

But if that were a thing...  (Atari:  please note!)

 

It would be incredible and it would also be possible if the right conditions are in place.

 

My Arcade has obtained an official license from Namco:

 

 

Blaze has obtained an official license from Namco:

 

 

AtGames has obtained an official license from Namco:

So I don't see why Atari couldn't get an official license from Namco. Among the necessary premises it is obviously important that the Atari 2600+ achieves considerable sales success and in this regard Atari really should not underestimate the enormous potential offered by the 7800 Homebrews library.

 

The 7800 Homebrew scene is currently exploding with the offering of many excellent games that are completely "original" and/or "officially licensed", not to mention all the excellent Arcade Perfect Ports in that "Last Chance Sale". Certainly an Atari 2600+ bundle with the amazing 7800 "Pac-Man Collection" would have surprising sales success.

 

The support of these new 7800 Homebrew games could not only boost sales but represent the future of Atari 2600+ which, in addition to targeting the usual nostalgic audience, this time would also capture the attention of a wider audience who are interested in buying Arcade Perfect Port games and new 3rd generation games, including people who regularly buy NES Homebrew games.

 

For all these reasons, JS7800 sources really need to be leveraged for 2600+, in order to achieve the maximum possible 7800 compatibility, and avoid the 2600+ starting to get bad reviews from the public and critics which would compromise its reputation. And that would truly be a huge missed opportunity.

 

 

3 hours ago, TrogdarRobusto said:

I am absorbing all of this discussion ... Ben is better pled to answer these questions re compatibility, etc. but I am taking nots for sure.

Thank you so much.

 

[Albert]

21 hours ago, Video said:

If marble craze works ill need to order another paddle, if they ever come back up. Hopefully they'll sell some sans cart at some point.

I just tested Marble Craze, and it works fine. 

 

 ..Al

[Dionoid]

50 minutes ago, Blinky said:

4 hours ago, Dionoid said:

what would be the benefit of having PAL games output as HDMI 50Hz? Will that make the gameplay look more smooth, as the PAL cartridges themself also generate frames at 50Hz? Just wondering.

Animations of sprites/missles (especially those that move at 1 pixel per frame) will be more smooth.

When displaying a PAL50 game on 60HZ display every 5 frames an extra (double) frame is displayed. This causes stutter/jitter in the animation.

Try running  PAL and NTSC versions of Dodge Em. You can easily notice the issue by just watching the cars in attract mode.

Yes, that makes sense, but I never realized this! I just ran both Dodge 'Em PAL and NTSC in Stella on my laptop (which has a screen that only supports 60 Hz). The jitter in animation in PAL attract mode was indeed very noticeable. The NTSC version was very smooth.

50 minutes ago, Blinky said:

4 hours ago, Dionoid said:

just like the Atari 2600+ you have to know the specific product-page link

I thought It might be like something that but I couldn't find a direct link for the joystick.

Thanks for sharing the link. How did you find it?

I basically just incremented the product-number in the url until the CX40+ joystick popup up. I was probably the first one who ordered a CX40+ joystick on bol.com 🙂

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dionoid

[Bakasama]

I can see Atari getting the license for Pac-Man from Namco but Ms. Pac-Man is in a weird legal area with it being shared by Namco and Atgames.

[Albert]

I just tested another batch of homebrew games: 

 

 

Everything in the above bin worked except for the F4SC/F6SC (32K/16K + SARA RAM) games, although Anguna may be fine.

 

The F4SC games I've tested:

 

Aardvark

Cave In

Seaweed Assault (not pictured above)

 

And F6SC: 

 

Dragon's Descent

Anguna

 

The above games, except for Anguna, have a similar failure mode -- they will boot fine, but Cave-In, Dragon's Descent, and Seaweed Assault have lots of random blocks in the playfield.  I'm assuming this is due to the SARA RAM not working properly.  Aardvark boots fine, but once you start the game, it crashes when you finally get to the main gameplay screen (it crashes before the screen is actually drawn).  

Anguna seems to boot up and play fine, but I'd need to spend more time with it to be sure it's 100% good.

 

Given these games all appear to have been dumped correctly by the 2600+ (or they wouldn't likely have booted at al), it seems this should be relatively easy to fix.

 

As for the other games, thus far all the 4K, 8K, 16K, and 32K homebrew games I've thrown at it seem to run fine.  Zippy the Porcupine, the only EF 64K game I've tried so far (and not pictured above), also does not run.  I would think this one should be fixable as well. 

 

That's all for now!

 

 ..Al

[Blinky]

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

I'm assuming this is due to the SARA RAM not working properly

I wonder if this has anything to do with the enumeration of the cart types (SC and non SC having the same values) which @Ben from Plaion posted here

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Blinky said:

I wonder if this has anything to do with the enumeration of the cart types (SC and non SC having the same values) which @Ben from Plaion posted here

Not sure, I will speak directly with Ben about this issue. 

 

 ..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

9 minutes ago, Albert said:

I'm assuming this is due to the SARA RAM not working properly

Stella auto detects SC RAM by comparing the data in all banks. For RAM, it has to be identical in all banks. I suppose the RAM is not dumped correctly and Stella identifies the games as F4 (no SC RAM). 

[Dionoid]

17 minutes ago, Albert said:

Everything in the above bin worked except for the F4SC/F6SC (32K/16K + SARA RAM) games, although Anguna may be fine.

Are you using the latest update of the dumper software? As Ben shared a list of supported cart types, and F4SC/F6SC should now be supported. But maybe that's only in PLAION's internal dev version.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dionoid

[Thomas Jentzsch]

5 minutes ago, Blinky said:

I wonder if this has anything to do with the enumeration of the cart types (SC and non SC having the same values) which @Ben from Plaion posted here

If Stella does auto detect the type, the dumper code internal values make no difference. But if Stella is started with command line parameters for the type, it needs the correct type. Then the dumper must not use the same enums for e.g. F4 and F4SC.

[+Defender_2600]

28 minutes ago, Bakasama said:

I can see Atari getting the license for Pac-Man from Namco but Ms. Pac-Man is in a weird legal area with it being shared by Namco and Atgames.

 

However as you saw in my previous post, My Arcade has obtained an official Ms. Pac-Man license from Namco:

 

https://www.myarcadegaming.com/collections/ms-pac-man

 

But above all, Arcade1Up sells (and has recently sold) many Ms. Pac-Man Game Machines:

 

https://arcade1up.com/collections/all-arcade1up-game-machines/products/bandai-namco-legacy-arcade-game-ms-pac-man-edition

 

https://arcade1up.com/collections/all-arcade1up-game-machines/products/ms-pac-man-40th-anniversary-collection

 

https://arcade1up.com/collections/all-arcade1up-game-machines/products/ms-pac-man™-partycade-40th-anniversary-black-edition-10-games

 

https://arcade1up.com/collections/all-arcade1up-game-machines/products/ms-pac-man™-head-to-head-countercade-6-games-in-1

 

 

[napabar]

6 hours ago, Dionoid said:

Hi @Ben from Plaion, did you actually try this out? While the pinouts are indeed different, a Sega Genesis/Master System controller can be used without adapter on the original Atari 2600. The directional pad works without problems and the 'B' button works as fire button. Some Atari 2600 homebrew games (e.g. Lode Runner) even use the 'C' button as secondary button.

So I wouldn't be surprised if a Sega Genesis controller just works on the Atari 2600+.

100% these are compatible.  I believe it was the Master system that was designed to be Atari compatible, and when Sega went to the Genesis, they designed it in a way for the controller to feature extra buttons, but be backward compatible with the Master system, which was designed with the Atari standard.