+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 6 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Hm, but then why are SC RAM dumps reported to be working in the 2600+? One way this could happen is if the RAM does not work for some reason. Perhaps the dumper speed is too high for some carts and the result is a plain F4 dump as the RAM just returns a static value. Stella would then get a dump and realize that it is a F4SC and plays it perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 14 hours ago, DirtyHairy said: Yeah, pretty much certain. I couldn't find this for the 3128, but this is from another Rockchip "datasheet" (or what they like to call the public documents that they publish 😏) for a different SOC. Most likely the scheme is similar, and the diverging number is just die lot and production date. Confirmed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 26 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Ah yes, that's correct. Hm, but then why are SC RAM dumps reported to be working in the 2600+? @Ben from Plaion Or does the dumper detect extra RAM now? Do you have a list of SC RAM games please and I will ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 4 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: Do you have a list of SC RAM games please and I will ask. Atari called theirs SARA and it added 128 bytes of RAM. 14 games were released between 1982 - 1984 that used the SARA: Atari released 14 games that used the SARA - only 4 of those being released in Atari Inc.'s final year (late 1983 - early 1984). Elevator Action (8K) prototype Stargate / Defender II (8K) Crack'ed (16K) prototype Crystal Castles (16K) Dark Chambers (16K) Desert Falcon (16K) Dig Dug (16K) - 1st SARA-enabled game Jr. Pac-Man (16K) KLAX (16K) Millipede (16K) Off The Wall (16K) Radar Lock (16K) Save Mary (16K) prototype Secret Quest (16K) Shooting Arcade (16K) prototype Sprint Master (16K) Super Football (16K) Fatal Run (32K) Both Garfield and Zoo Keeper were to use the SARA chip as well. The following homebrew games also use the SARA: The Byte Before Christmas (32K) Cave In (32K) 1st homebrew to use SARA Chetiry (uses SARA for the high score table) Escape It! Aarkvard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) 36 minutes ago, karri said: Atari called theirs SARA and it added 128 bytes of RAM. 14 games were released between 1982 - 1984 that used the SARA: Atari released 14 games that used the SARA - only 4 of those being released in Atari Inc.'s final year (late 1983 - early 1984). Elevator Action (8K) prototype Stargate / Defender II (8K) Crack'ed (16K) prototype Crystal Castles (16K) Dark Chambers (16K) Desert Falcon (16K) Dig Dug (16K) - 1st SARA-enabled game Jr. Pac-Man (16K) KLAX (16K) Millipede (16K) Off The Wall (16K) Radar Lock (16K) Save Mary (16K) prototype Secret Quest (16K) Shooting Arcade (16K) prototype Sprint Master (16K) Super Football (16K) Fatal Run (32K) Both Garfield and Zoo Keeper were to use the SARA chip as well. The following homebrew games also use the SARA: The Byte Before Christmas (32K) Cave In (32K) 1st homebrew to use SARA Chetiry (uses SARA for the high score table) Escape It! Aarkvard Yes, I saw this list, I didnt know if SARA was the same as SC. Well I've played lots of these official titles personally. For certain though Klax was the last game to be fixed prior to going gold with 1.0 launch software I recall it being tricky but a few hours with the actual cartridge and the developer had it running. Edited January 22 by Ben from Plaion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Karnov Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The only game on that list I have is Stargate, and that definitely works fine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Ok. Regarding KLAX. The game has a SC RAM on it and it works ok on my Atari 7800. The same cart on the 2600+ goes directly to the final screen and the game is not playable. Obviously something is wrong with the dump. My guess is that the dumper does not detect the RAM portion of the cart. There can be two outcomes of this: - RAM is not working due to too high read speed and the data from the RAM is fixed to some value. Stellas interpretation that the RAM block is unchanged and starts the game as a F6SC game. The game works correctly. - RAM is working. The dumper tries to read the ROM at address range 0..127 and messes up data at 128..255. Stella decides that the game is not a F6SC game and starts it as a F6 game with unpredictable results. This is what I believe happens to me. (Note: An SC cart should only by written to at addresses 0...127. If you read from these addresses you get random content in the address range 128..255) So could you check what the dumper does to the first 128 addresses on the cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) If I test KLAX with F6 (the game is 16K) instead of F6SC, it stills shows the title screen, just with very fast scrolling at the bottom and a buzz tone. The game is stuck there. That doesn't fit. Hm... Edited January 22 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 From the list above I have tried 2600 versions original carts (NTSC) latest dumper DIG DUG - Seems to play ok but has a clicking sound when the music plays. JR. PAC-MAN - Seems to play ok MILLIPEDE - The Gun I believe has a slight hesitation moving left to right STARGATE - Seems Good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 @karri The dump is in /tmp, although I don't remember the filename. I suppose you can hex encode and then copy it over the serial line by doing something along the lines "sleep 10; dd if=/tmp/rom.bin.b64 of=/dev/stdout bs=1" on the device and then starting a corresponding dd on your computer while the the terminal is running --- then you can check the contents of the dump. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 7 minutes ago, DirtyHairy said: @karri The dump is in /tmp, although I don't remember the filename. I suppose you can hex encode and then copy it over the serial line by doing something along the lines "sleep 10; dd if=/tmp/rom.bin.b64 of=/dev/stdout bs=1" on the device and then starting a corresponding dd on your computer while the the terminal is running --- then you can check the contents of the dump. I actually have serial cables connected to the dumper so I can dig into it when time allows. I just need to drag my laptop with me for doing it. But my kids are dropping in tonight and I am cooking dinner... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 FISHING DERBY (NTSC) latest dumper 1.1.0.9 Has clicking sound just like PITFALL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I have a Klax proto repro, it loads and runs on the 2600+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSetIlly Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 minutes ago, MrChickenz said: FISHING DERBY (NTSC) latest dumper 1.1.0.9 Has clicking sound just like PITFALL! Fishing Derby (and Pitfall) use a non-zero value for silence which is I believe the case of this - when the audio buffer runs out of data, the value drops to zero, and then raised again soon after when the buffer is filled again. The changes in value is the cause of the clicking. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 4 minutes ago, remowilliams said: I have a Klax proto repro, it loads and runs on the 2600+ Different hardware most likely causes different dumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I plan to fill the RAM on my KLAX with some known content at startup and save the dump from the 2600+. At least I can see if the dump replicates the RAM content to all the banks. But it may take a few hours before I have time to do it tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynormical Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Okay to join the Beta? I live in the UK and noticed a few funny things with my 2600+ but I recently received an enduro cartridge which does not work. I am hoping that this will solve that issue? Many thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I am a bit surprised. This first dump was made by disabling the write function from the cart so that the dumper cannot overwrite anything. This first dump was detected as 16f6 so it is correct. KlaxF6SCwriteDisabled.bin You can see the text in ram repeating 4 times: A quick brown fox jumped over a lazy old dog. You've tuned to Radio Caroline, home of the good guys. It's now exactly 8 o'clock. =J)@ !"#$%&'()0123456789@ABCDEFGHIPQRSTUVWXY`abcdefghipqrstuvwxy ... A quick brown fox jumped over a lazy old dog. You've tuned to Radio Caroline, home of the good guys. It's now exactly 8 o'clock. )?JJJ JJJJ ... A quick brown fox jumped over a lazy old dog. You've tuned to Radio Caroline, home of the good guys. It's now exactly 8 o'clock. JJJJ JJJJ ... A quick brown fox jumped over a lazy old dog. You've tuned to Radio Caroline, home of the good guys. It's now exactly 8 o'clock. )pJJ Orw|O After this I compiled a cart that allows writes by the dumper. The dumper detected it as 08e0: KlaxF6SC.bin The cart is interpreted by the dumper to be 08e0 and it was cut to be 8k. There is also no trace of the RAM text in the dump. The C-file from which this cart was compiled: rom.c I am now completely lost. Obviously there is someting I am doing wrong as this is not even close to what I was expecting. My theory was that the texts "A quick brown fox..." would be overwritten by the dumper. Not that I get an 8k game of the 08e0 format. With the write function disabled I at least got a 16k game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Your 16K dump is 10 bytes too long. It looks like there are 5 bytes added at the begin and another 5 bytes added at the end of the dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 43 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Your 16K dump is 10 bytes too long. It looks like there are 5 bytes added at the begin and another 5 bytes added at the end of the dump. True. That is the communication between the dumper and the CPU. It starts with some magic and ends with a checksum. But this 16k dump shows the content of the RAM but I disabled the writing to RAM just to get a reference. The whole idea was to have a 2nd 16k with writes enabled to get a dump of the real cart. Edit: I just tested my "8k 08e0" cart in my Atari 7800. It worked perfectly with sound and everything. I did play Klax for a while without noticing anything strange. The dumper has some _real_ problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) My PAL copy of Dig Dug works fine. Dumping used to be quirky at first but after cleaning the contacts it boots reliably so I think it wasn't a dumper issue. Also no audio clicking of any sort. The disappearing sprites in the video are an issue of my HDMI grabber (which grabs at 50Hz but for some reason the flickering sprite multiplexing does not quite work. It works fine when connected directly to a TV.). 2024-01-22 18-38-00.mkv Edited January 22 by pseudografx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariYMás009 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, pseudografx said: My PAL copy of Dig Dug works fine. Dumping used to be quirky at first but after cleaning the contacts it boots reliably so I think it wasn't a dumper issue. Also no audio clicking of any sort. The disappearing sprites in the video are an issue of my HDMI grabber (which grabs at 50Hz but for some reason the flickering sprite multiplexing does not quite work. It works fine when connected directly to a TV.). 2024-01-22 18-38-00.mkv 2.52 MB · 1 download My PAL DigDug also works nice, with 1.0 and 1.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krullor Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I have two copies of Defender II PAL. One loads and works 9 times out of 10 and one fails 9 times out of 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinky Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 my PAL dig dug and Fatal play fine too (not counting the 50/60 Hz issues). I dumped both roms on the 2600+ and noticed something interesting. on Fatal run the RAM sections all read FFs except the section at offset 0x6000 that one reads as all 00s. Dig dug is even more interesting. All ram sections are different but the 128 byte write section contains the same contents as the 128 byte read section. With @Thomas Jentzsch knowledge that SC RAM is slow. I'd say the dumper reads out the data stored in ROM that is normally not accessible but since the dumper is faster than than RAM. it reads the rom before the ram data is enabled/output. The data read is probably junk that was in memory when the source code of the game was assembled. two sections that cointain mostly ASCII: Offset 0x1000: Offset 0x2000: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyphted Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Im getting "download boot fail" when I try to update the emulator in RKDevTool. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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