+madman Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 AfAIK there are no fpga psx cores so i don't know where people think the psx grade stuff is coming from...... So you're saying there's no RetroVGS port of the Jaguar Tomb Raider beta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Let's see... - no existing software library - less powerful and more expensive than competing products - vague statements that don't address questions raised by potential buyers - very little and "all over the place" technical info (former Amiga technology? FPGA? no 16-bit cores, but a PSX one?...) - promises that sound far-fetched (partnerships with industry heavyweights, game developers writing their own FPGA cores...) - heavy focus on secondary things (when designing a console, the plastic case isn't what you should worry and communicate about) - no price set (just "it won't be cheap"), Kickstarter, limited editions, etc. So : - "nice" option : they're good guys, but they should really learn to communicate better. - "neutral" option : like a lot of Kickstarter projects, they don't really know what they are doing. They're just promising all sort of stuff to get people to back them, and will sort things out later when they get the money. There's a very real chance that the project is going to be significantly delayed or cancelled. - "cynical" option : the whole thing is a scam. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Guys, just go back and play some of those 3D PS1/Saturn games and you'll see that your memory of them and how they feel now are 2 distinct things. There's very very few that are still fun to play but the vast majority can only keep you "nostalgic" for 5 mins before reality sets in. [this also apply to N64 for that matter]. 2D fares a little better although it's about the game not the fact that it runs on an old console or pretend old console. I lost count of how many times I started and abandoned Zelda on NES or Castelvania 3, if I played them maybe just 15 years ago (lol) I would have been able to get past their sparse appearance no matter how good they look in comparison to other titles on the same platform. I disagree with this sentiment. Sure many 5th gen titles had jaggy polygons and there was a lot of shovelware, but your claim that these games cannot be enjoyable to modern gamers despite the inferior hardware, just goes against everything that makes retro games so popular today. There were excellent games and garbage from every generation. If a particular generation does not appeal to your sensibilities, then you are under no obligation to play them. So I'll agree to disagree. N64 and PS1 titles can be just as awesome to play today as they were nearly 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 So : - "nice" option : they're good guys, but they should really learn to communicate better. - "neutral" option : like a lot of Kickstarter projects, they don't really know what they are doing. They're just promising all sort of stuff to get people to back them, and will sort things out later when they get the money. There's a very real chance that the project is going to be significantly delayed or cancelled. - "cynical" option : the whole thing is a scam. Even in a worst case scenario or "cynical" option, I seriously don't see this as any sort of scam. Scam for what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I am not saying nothing is worth playing, but with 1800 games for NES , 300 for Sega Master System, 1000 for Megadrive, 800 PCEngine (CDROM), 1500 for SNES, 2500 games for PS1, 550 for Saturn and 390 for N64 it's a grand total of ~8900 games. If you like dividing them by generation: 3rd: 1800 games for NES , 300 for Sega Master System -> 2100 4th: 1000 for Megadrive, 800 PCEngine (CDROM), 1500 for SNES -> 3300 5th: 2500 games for PS1, 550 for Saturn, 390 for N64 -> ~3500 I am not sure even 10% qualifies as standing the test of time, likely less than 33% were good games to start with way back when and that is being admittedly generous. I am not saying there are no games to enjoy, I'm just saying that many would keep you busy for really little nowadays and few would engage you to a point you want to finish them, let alone buying them if you are a new customer. Obviously price would be a major factor for a new retro console. I admit that still if you can have a retro console with around 800 interesting games that people would buy it's a slam dunk, I am not sure the math adds up though, not sure all the relative IP holders would allow the ports. So even if we agree to disagree, we can at least be realistic and not pretend that all retro games are good because they are retro ... as I said I doubt that even one third is a fair assessment if you had to buy them. Edited July 13, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) This weekend they are filming the Kickstarter sizzle reel and are asking for questions over at FB: RETRO VGS 2 hrs · Edited · WE NEED YOUR HELP! We will be starting to shoot our Kickstarter sizzle video this weekend and would like to ask this community to submit some questions they have for us so that we might answer these questions on the video and giving you credit for the question. First name and last name initial would be used. So if you provide a question, be sure to provide that as well. Also, please look through the list of questions to make sure your question hasn't already been asked. In either case, we will choose the person who posted the question first. Fire away and thanks for helping us out with this part of the campaign. Edited July 13, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 This weekend they are filming the Kickstarter sizzle reel and are asking for questions over at FB: What's the point? They will just ignore them like they've ignored the legitimate questions posed here. Well, unless the questions are about case colors. Maybe I should ask if there will be limited edition power cable colors? Anyone want to bet on whether or not the "sizzle video" actually mentions what the hardware is? Or will it be more BS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not really related but are these the same people that did that Retro Magazine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not really related but are these the same people that did that Retro Magazine? Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Hey Everyone, Figured it was a good time to jump back in here and address some of these issues below: Let's see...- no existing software library - No brand new system has every had an existing software library. We are no different. We are working our connections and doing what we can to have 15-20 launch titles announced and confirmed at the time of the campaign. Between the time the campaign ends and the time we begin delivering next year we will continue to bring more and more games on board.- less powerful and more expensive than competing products. What competing products are you speaking of? - vague statements that don't address questions raised by potential buyers. What are we being vague about? Please understand there are LOTS of moving targets when developing a new hardware platform. Our team has been working on this for about 8 months and I can assure you that any other company would take much longer. In all reality this product will have been designed and brought to market faster than probably any other console in history.- very little and "all over the place" technical info (former Amiga technology? FPGA? no 16-bit cores, but a PSX one?...). We have been as technical as we can be at this point. We are trying to reveal as much as possible with out giving away proprietary information. And we have never said we have a PSX core? Only that graphically speaking the RVGS will play games similar to what was available on the Playstation. Early 3D IF developers want to do this. And there are no 16-bit (or higher) cores that have been created yet. Only 8 Bit console and computer cores are existing. We will use our funding to finance Kevin Horton's creation of some of these 16-bit cores and that will help out the entire hobby.- promises that sound far-fetched (partnerships with industry heavyweights, game developers writing their own FPGA cores...). Game dev's can write their own cores as they see fit if there is a market here and it's worth their time to do so. If they don't want to do that they can develop in a variety of popular methods and come through the ARM side of the system.- heavy focus on secondary things (when designing a console, the plastic case isn't what you should worry and communicate about). Please realize we have chosen to be very transparent on this process so that all of you can come along for the ride and get a glimpse in this process. Normally, you wouldn't have been shared any information about early development from any other company so please cut us a bit of slack when there are things we are holding back. There are reasons for that. You can believe when the Kicsktarter begins all will be revealed. Enjoy the fact that you are getting an early glimpse of this process The console colors are exciting to many gamers and it is a fun and easy thing for us to show off. If we showed off the hardware months ago there would be countless updates, revision and changes that have happened since then so again, would make no sense to get specific this early on. But, that information will be forthcoming soon.- no price set (just "it won't be cheap"), Kickstarter, limited editions, etc. Again, price can't be set until we lock down the hardware which is coming near.So :- "nice" option : they're good guys, but they should really learn to communicate better. We have communicated throughout the process more than any other company would ever communicate - "neutral" option : like a lot of Kickstarter projects, they don't really know what they are doing. They're just promising all sort of stuff to get people to back them, and will sort things out later when they get the money. There's a very real chance that the project is going to be significantly delayed or cancelled. We DO know what we are doing and because of this we aren't quick to drop information that isn't completely and entirely confirmed. - "cynical" option : the whole thing is a scam. Um, no And as a bonus we are also going to use the FPGA to give programmers and computer enthusiasts the ability to hook keyboards up to this thing and come in through purchased system replication cartridges to program like on an Amiga, Atari 800 or a C64 for example. There are lots of cool things left to reveal. Edited July 14, 2015 by Parrothead 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 "... Please realize we have chosen to be very transparent on this..." - I see what you did there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah98 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hey Everyone, Figured it was a good time to jump back in here and address some of these issues below: And as a bonus we are also going to use the FPGA to give programmers and computer enthusiasts the ability to hook keyboards up to this thing and come in through purchased system replication cartridges to program like on an Amiga, Atari 800 or a C64 for example. There are lots of cool things left to reveal. I remain optimistic and ready to buy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 So like how would an SR cart work for the Amiga? What connections would it support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 We have been as technical as we can be at this point. We are trying to reveal as much as possible with out giving away proprietary information. This makes sense. Wouldn't want to give away proprietary information to all the other competitors out there making cartridge based retro systems. Gotta protect your IP in this market. I'll ask a second time: Can you explain how Super Noah's Ark 3D is a launch title yet you've admitted there are no 16-bit cores? Also, Pier Solar. Did the developers port it to the ARM chip used in the RetroVGS? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yep! Thats actually bad news for me. I was a backer for that mag and while I can't complain (lately) about the content....the design is pretty atrocious. Basically, lots of stuff in the mag you can find on the internet without getting a headache trying to read it. So I remain a skeptic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I am not saying nothing is worth playing, but with 1800 games for NES , 300 for Sega Master System, 1000 for Megadrive, 800 PCEngine (CDROM), 1500 for SNES, 2500 games for PS1, 550 for Saturn and 390 for N64 it's a grand total of ~8900 games. If you like dividing them by generation: 3rd: 1800 games for NES , 300 for Sega Master System -> 2100 4th: 1000 for Megadrive, 800 PCEngine (CDROM), 1500 for SNES -> 3300 5th: 2500 games for PS1, 550 for Saturn, 390 for N64 -> ~3500 I am not sure even 10% qualifies as standing the test of time, likely less than 33% were good games to start with way back when and that is being admittedly generous. So even if we agree to disagree, we can at least be realistic and not pretend that all retro games are good because they are retro ... as I said I doubt that even one third is a fair assessment if you had to buy them. More realistically would be 3 or 4 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Hey Everyone, Figured it was a good time to jump back in here and address some of these issues below: And as a bonus we are also going to use the FPGA to give programmers and computer enthusiasts the ability to hook keyboards up to this thing and come in through purchased system replication cartridges to program like on an Amiga, Atari 800 or a C64 for example. There are lots of cool things left to reveal. Ah, so there's an ARM processor AND an FPGA. The ARM would allow devs to port over stuff like Shovel Knight, Shantea, etc... I also like the idea of system replication cartridges. Basically these addon modules would let us play old school games in high def, but properly and in a non-infringing way unlike the Retron5. That is starting to sound better already. Edited July 14, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Assuming Kevin Horton and AA's kevtris are one and the same person, he was well on the way to FPGA versions of several consoles back in 2013 :- http://atariage.com/forums/topic/214384-has-anyone-worked-on-an-fpga-atari-7800/?p=2805666 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Thanks for answering. No brand new system has every had an existing software library.That's not true:- systems with retro-compatibility (e.g. PS2, Wii...) can play previous generation games - systems with emulators (e.g. pretty much every alternative/homebrew) can play older games - systems which comply to a standard (e.g. Android or x86-based devices) can play current games What competing products are you speaking of?For example, the Ouya.(yeah I know, it doesn't use cartridges. But take a USB key, put a plastic shell over it, and bingo! Here's your cartridge.) Early 3D IF developers want to do this. Game dev's can write their own cores as they see fit if there is a market here and it's worth their time to do so.In other words: probably won't happen. Your average game developer isn't going to learn how to design a FPGA core, or write a complete 3D engine. This is what I mean by "far-fetched promises". You tell us that your console can do wonderful things, but it appears that you're only providing the hardware and relying on third-parties to write the actual software that does those things. Except it's not written yet, and there's no guarantee it will ever be. You're not alone. Here are a few consoles that used the same strategy: the Jaguar (failure), the GP2X (failure), the Wiz (failure), the Caanoo (failure), the Pandora (failure)... do you notice a pattern? We are trying to reveal as much as possible with out giving away proprietary information.While I appreciate that you're replying now, basically ignoring lots of legitimate questions asked on this topic isn't being transparent. Even replying "we're not sure yet" would have been better than nothing. And "proprietary information"? Please. You're not Sony or nVidia. Without any disrespect, what you're doing isn't anywhere near the bleeding edge of technology. You didn't invent retro-oriented systems (there are have been plenty of those for years), you didn't invent FPGA-based consoles (the C-One, Minimig, and MIST were there before), you didn't invent using both an ARM and a FPGA in a console (the Retron 5 already does), you didn't invent the controller (it's a rebranded third-party one)... That doesn't mean your project is bad, but it means there's no reason to be secretive about what you're doing. Again, price can't be set until we lock down the hardware which is coming near.Sorry, but if you're still at the point where you can't give a price estimate beacuse of hardware changes, then you're nowhere near ready. We DO know what we are doing and because of this we aren't quick to drop information that isn't completely and entirely confirmed.Good. You should also wait until everything is confirmed before promoting your product. We have communicated throughout the process more than any other company would ever communicate If you really believe this, well... you really, really need to rethink your communication completely. Because one-way communication (ie. promoting your product without answering questions, for whatever reason), and promising "everything will be revealed soon, trust us" is exactly what scammers and unexperienced people do. You're not going to get customers that way. With the amount of failed projects on Kickstarter, people are going to expect proof what you're claiming is true. Edited July 14, 2015 by Zerosquare 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I also find it hard to believe that they saved $500,000 with the Jag mold. There is a consolized Neo Geo MVS system that has a custom made mold and I know for a fact the guy didn't spend anywhere near 6 figures having it made. But then again, he actually SELLS a product, doesn't just hype it up with nonsense. The downside is, while it's an actual product, there's only one case color available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I also find it hard to believe that they saved $500,000 with the Jag mold. I hear you. It was more like 2-10% of $500,000 that they saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I hear you. It was more like 2-10% of $500,000 that they saved. And the consolized MVS I mentioned has a spring loaded dust flap. Also, this is completely ludicrous: Are you retaining the “Jag” handle on the cartridges? Yes, for a couple of reasons: One, the handle provides functionality needed to properly seat the pins into the console So without the handle, Jaguar games wouldn't have been able to be properly seated? And how does a handle aid in inserting a cart into a system? It's a wonder anyone was able to properly seat games in their other Atari consoles without a handle. Must've been pure luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 So without the handle, Jaguar games wouldn't have been able to be properly seated? And how does a handle aid in inserting a cart into a system? It's a wonder anyone was able to properly seat games in their other Atari consoles without a handle. Must've been pure luck. Jag was not the first cartridge to have "handles!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 And the consolized MVS I mentioned has a spring loaded dust flap. Also, this is completely ludicrous: So without the handle, Jaguar games wouldn't have been able to be properly seated? And how does a handle aid in inserting a cart into a system? It's a wonder anyone was able to properly seat games in their other Atari consoles without a handle. Must've been pure luck. LOL. It'll probably be a usb-in-a-case, as zero mentioned. With a lot of air inside. Kinda ironic. I wonder if they'll have the USB 'superposition' issue? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The "handle" on a Jag cart doesn't do a damn thing. You still have to grip and pull the same way you would with any other cartridge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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