Evercade?!

[Bill Loguidice]

3 minutes ago, Hydro Thunder said:

This is a great announcement...most definitely, however the looming question is...will there be a Capcom cartridge for those of us who own an Evercade handheld and Vs and don't want an EXP?  

My guess is NO. Similar to their Namco collections, there are probably restrictions on usage of the license. This was probably the only compromise they could do to actually get the IP.

[Hydro Thunder]

3 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

My guess is NO. Similar to their Namco collections, there are probably restrictions on usage of the license. This was probably the only compromise they could do to actually get the IP.

From reading up a bit more I have to agree.  And I think that one big negative is this will splinter the base, the first real mistake Blaze has made.  There are a LOT of us who have both the handheld and the VS, and who have zero interest in a new handheld (honestly never would have gotten the handheld in the first place had the VS been out earlier).  Having the Capcoms not be available even on cartridge form for the old handheld is very very bad; It's one thing to ask for $20 or even $30 for a nice cart collection, it's another to ask $150!  This feels like a Sega releasing the Saturn early and crushing the 32X, to a much much lesser extent.  Don't screw over your early adopters, Blaze.  Even if Capcom are being butts and told you to for some reason I can't understand.  This sux.  But of course...for those who want the EXP, it's great news, good for you peeps, sincerely.  But bad for the rest of us.

[roots.genoa]

It's a very unexpected and pleasant surprise, even though I probably have most of these games already in the Switch compilations. I intended to buy an EXP anyway, and I'm more disappointed by the face it will only release at the end of November.

[Bill Loguidice]

3 hours ago, Hydro Thunder said:

From reading up a bit more I have to agree.  And I think that one big negative is this will splinter the base, the first real mistake Blaze has made.  There are a LOT of us who have both the handheld and the VS, and who have zero interest in a new handheld (honestly never would have gotten the handheld in the first place had the VS been out earlier).  Having the Capcoms not be available even on cartridge form for the old handheld is very very bad; It's one thing to ask for $20 or even $30 for a nice cart collection, it's another to ask $150!  This feels like a Sega releasing the Saturn early and crushing the 32X, to a much much lesser extent.  Don't screw over your early adopters, Blaze.  Even if Capcom are being butts and told you to for some reason I can't understand.  This sux.  But of course...for those who want the EXP, it's great news, good for you peeps, sincerely.  But bad for the rest of us.

Being in the industry, all I can say is that you can never please everyone, so it's not worth trying. Someone is always going to find issues with anything you do. Instead you do the best you can and work within the restrictions as best you can. With zero insider info, I can say that if a cartridge of these games doesn't get released, it's because they can't, not because they don't want to. So it's either don't include the games at all so you don't piss off a small percentage of your customers, or you include the games and delight those who already purchased and/or might purchase in the future. As long as you always try and do right by the majority of your fans, you can make out well in the end. I mean, there are Evercade fans who are pissed about the EXP itself, despite the fact that all Evercade fans should want the hardware to keep evolving on a reasonable basis.

[+jgkspsx]

9 hours ago, Hydro Thunder said:

will there be a Capcom cartridge for those of us who own an Evercade handheld and Vs and don't want an EXP?  

From Ryan of Blaze:

 

—

- capcom games are permanent they will remain on the console forever
- capcom will remain on the white and black exp and isn’t just a pre order exclusive 
- we are working on a solution for multiplayer which also involves the VS. We are not able to commit to anything just yet, so it’s TBC. Please bear with us we are a small team trying our best!
- The re-releases were heavily worked on by our resident arcade expert David Haywood who optimised the arcade titles so they would run as best they can on the device and they run amazing.
- the limited edition will have some capcom extras 
- there will be a full capcom colour manual with both exp packages

 

Hope you are all as excited as we are, this is a big step forward for us and opens a lot of doors. This has been a deal we have been working on for a good couple years now.

—

 

They also said a cartridge is not an option right now, but they’re working on bringing it to VS. Also there will be a last major update to the OG handheld to add many features and bonus content of its own.

[Hydro Thunder]

6 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Being in the industry, all I can say is that you can never please everyone, so it's not worth trying. Someone is always going to find issues with anything you do. Instead you do the best you can and work within the restrictions as best you can. With zero insider info, I can say that if a cartridge of these games doesn't get released, it's because they can't, not because they don't want to. So it's either don't include the games at all so you don't piss off a small percentage of your customers, or you include the games and delight those who already purchased and/or might purchase in the future. As long as you always try and do right by the majority of your fans, you can make out well in the end. I mean, there are Evercade fans who are pissed about the EXP itself, despite the fact that all Evercade fans should want the hardware to keep evolving on a reasonable basis.

All of this is true but it begs the question with Evercade... Are there enough fans of the Evercade EXP over those who are happy with the Handheld and/or the VS, and don't want the EXP?  I guess that's something their marketing team would have looked at in detail before greenlighting this Capcom thing.  But to be clear, the "can't please everyone all the time" is of course true...but when you may be talking about a literal majority of the people who know about and already own an Evercade, that's different from "some".  But maybe I overestimate the # of us who aren't interested in shelling out for the EXP.

[7800Knight]

I have no gripe against Blaze, the EXP or the announcement of the Capcom games being exclusive to the EXP.  To be honest, I already own both Capcom collections for PS2 so I have lots of Capcom games to play.

 

That said, I've got no desire to pay up for another handheld unit.  While I didn't see this newer design coming, it does remind me of what I said earlier about how warnings abound on not buying the 1st gen of IPhone, IPad, etc.

[+jgkspsx]

At least Blaze seems committed to trying to push for more from Capcom. Also, the general belief is that having Capcom on board has the potential to open doors for Sega, Konami, and Taito, so there’s that…

[Cobra Kai]

7 hours ago, Hydro Thunder said:

All of this is true but it begs the question with Evercade... Are there enough fans of the Evercade EXP over those who are happy with the Handheld and/or the VS, and don't want the EXP?  I guess that's something their marketing team would have looked at in detail before greenlighting this Capcom thing.  But to be clear, the "can't please everyone all the time" is of course true...but when you may be talking about a literal majority of the people who know about and already own an Evercade, that's different from "some".  But maybe I overestimate the # of us who aren't interested in shelling out for the EXP.

I think there's way more potential customers to buy the EXP, then there are existing customers. If I'm Blaze, I'm looking to expand my user base. 

 

It might feel like an affront to existing Evercade owners, but really they need to get more users that can buy cartridges right? Capcom is going to get exposure, this is a real coup for Blaze and I hope it works out well for them. 

[+LS650]

1 hour ago, Cobra Kai said:

It might feel like an affront to existing Evercade owners, but really they need to get more users that can buy cartridges right? Capcom is going to get exposure, this is a real coup for Blaze and I hope it works out well for them. 

Will a lot of current owners really see it as an affront?  I wish that the Namco collections were compatible with the VS - but that didn't at all stop me from buying one.

[Bill Loguidice]

4 hours ago, jgkspsx said:

At least Blaze seems committed to trying to push for more from Capcom. Also, the general belief is that having Capcom on board has the potential to open doors for Sega, Konami, and Taito, so there’s that…

This is absolutely the case. I know in my own experience with IP, one you land a big name or two, other big names can suddenly start to proactively get in contact. As an Evercade owner, I'd want the ecosystem as healthy as possible, even if it means the occasional Namco and Capcom with restrictions because of other exclusivity contracts or costs. And as was also said on here, the goal is not to simply keep feeding existing owners, but bring as many new system owners into the buffet as possible. And finally, if the new handheld was just an aesthetic upgrade and nothing more, that might be an issue, but there really are some much needed improvements and updates over the original handheld. I just don't see why in this day and age some people never wanted them to produce better models of the hardware.

[+jgkspsx]

12 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I just don't see why in this day and age some people never wanted them to produce better models of the hardware.

I mostly have played the Evercade handheld at night indoors. I wasn’t doing much traveling for most of the pandemic. I didn’t really have problems with the screen, so I was mostly looking forward to the EXP for the tate mode support. As I’ve done a lot more roadtripping this summer, I have often found the original screen to be unusable in bright sunlight, even for fairly low-twitch games. I am now looking forward to the EXP more for the upgraded screen than anything.

[Hydro Thunder]

13 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 I just don't see why in this day and age some people never wanted them to produce better models of the hardware.

My complaints have been specific and clear, that they are not about releasing the EXP, about it having improvements.  It's releasing games that are -exclusive- to it, such that it specifically excludes anyone that doesn't upgrade to the new system.  A comparable (in ways, in ways not so much) situation might be the iiRcade, and the new Gold Edition cabinets.  There was a LOT of heat early on from early adopters worrying that the new cabs would play games that the old would not.  As it turns out that is not the case; it has better sound, a lit marquee, and USB ports which the original cabs did not.  But since they've stated that it will play the same exact games, and the fanbase is happy.  Mind you, we're talking about a 3/4 full size arcade cabinet that runs roughly 10x what the Evercade does, so there are definitely some apples to oranges here.  

Just saying...don't make you fanbase unhappy.  Not saying they shouldn't have done whatever it took to get Capcom on board (and maybe this was it but...seems a weird requirement of no benefit I can think of to Capcom), not saying they shouldn't release newer and better hardware and features, they should.  Just don't Require me to buy the new hardware as someone who has invested in both the handheld and the VS in order to play Capcom games.

[famicommander]

35 minutes ago, Hydro Thunder said:

My complaints have been specific and clear, that they are not about releasing the EXP, about it having improvements.  It's releasing games that are -exclusive- to it, such that it specifically excludes anyone that doesn't upgrade to the new system.  A comparable (in ways, in ways not so much) situation might be the iiRcade, and the new Gold Edition cabinets.  There was a LOT of heat early on from early adopters worrying that the new cabs would play games that the old would not.  As it turns out that is not the case; it has better sound, a lit marquee, and USB ports which the original cabs did not.  But since they've stated that it will play the same exact games, and the fanbase is happy.  Mind you, we're talking about a 3/4 full size arcade cabinet that runs roughly 10x what the Evercade does, so there are definitely some apples to oranges here.  

Just saying...don't make you fanbase unhappy.  Not saying they shouldn't have done whatever it took to get Capcom on board (and maybe this was it but...seems a weird requirement of no benefit I can think of to Capcom), not saying they shouldn't release newer and better hardware and features, they should.  Just don't Require me to buy the new hardware as someone who has invested in both the handheld and the VS in order to play Capcom games.

There are games on the VS that you can't play on the original handheld (the built in secret games) and games that work on both handhelds but not the VS (the Namco carts).

 

There are Game Boy Color games that don't work on the Game Boy.

 

There are DSi games that either don't work at all or have limited functionality on the original DS and DS Lite.

 

There are New 3DS games that don't work on the original 3DS, 3DS XL, or 2DS.

 

This is a complete non-issue.

Edited September 4, 2022 by famicommander

[+jgkspsx]

56 minutes ago, Hydro Thunder said:

Not saying they shouldn't have done whatever it took to get Capcom on board (and maybe this was it but...seems a weird requirement of no benefit I can think of to Capcom)

Capcom will not let them release a cartridge at present. Licensing for built in games to a piece of hardware is apparently very different from licensing software to be released on a physical software medium.

 

Also, these are very heavily rereleased games. I think I have every game at least twice over and some 5x over.

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, Hydro Thunder said:

My complaints have been specific and clear, that they are not about releasing the EXP, about it having improvements.  It's releasing games that are -exclusive- to it, such that it specifically excludes anyone that doesn't upgrade to the new system.  A comparable (in ways, in ways not so much) situation might be the iiRcade, and the new Gold Edition cabinets.  There was a LOT of heat early on from early adopters worrying that the new cabs would play games that the old would not.  As it turns out that is not the case; it has better sound, a lit marquee, and USB ports which the original cabs did not.  But since they've stated that it will play the same exact games, and the fanbase is happy.  Mind you, we're talking about a 3/4 full size arcade cabinet that runs roughly 10x what the Evercade does, so there are definitely some apples to oranges here.  

Just saying...don't make you fanbase unhappy.  Not saying they shouldn't have done whatever it took to get Capcom on board (and maybe this was it but...seems a weird requirement of no benefit I can think of to Capcom), not saying they shouldn't release newer and better hardware and features, they should.  Just don't Require me to buy the new hardware as someone who has invested in both the handheld and the VS in order to play Capcom games.

I just don't get what's so difficult to understand or get upset about (take your pick). Whatever the reason, be it pre-existing contracts (which could be related to form factor, output resolution, region stuff, timing, etc.) that prohibit Capcom from licensing for physical media or anything else, what exactly was Evercade supposed to do here? Refuse to carry the Capcom games at all unless they were available on cartridge and thus not get any of the Capcom games? Or work with the same type of restrictions every other company that licenses games works with and make the only deal available? I don't think any reasonable person would say they should have done the former (no Capcom) on principal versus doing the latter (some Capcom) and increasing their gravitas and marketability with a huge get and also making their newest hardware an even more desirable get for existing owners and potential fans. (And it's not like there's not precedent for this, considering most of the unlockable games required the VS's two cartridge ports that are missing on the handheld.)

I get that there are people who don't want to ever replace their hardware or want to play it on the console, but again, it's a matter of clearly not being possible. It's literally getting upset because others get a benefit and you (the general "you" complaining) don't, and you'd rather no one get it rather than some people being able to get it and enjoying it. It's a weird way of thinking about things to me, especially since in the case of the Evercade, the Capcom deal is a positive towards the future health of the platform and more games without the same restrictions.

[roots.genoa]

4 hours ago, famicommander said:

There are games on the VS that you can't play on the original handheld (the built in secret games) and games that work on both handhelds but not the VS (the Namco carts).

I was going to mention that, thanks.

 

I don't care for the VS because I have too many things connected to my TV already and I find more convenient to play on a handheld, though I only play at home. To each their own.

[Hydro Thunder]

13 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 It's literally getting upset because others get a benefit and you (the general "you" complaining) don't, and you'd rather no one get it rather than some people being able to get it and enjoying it. It's a weird way of thinking about things to me, especially since in the case of the Evercade, the Capcom deal is a positive towards the future health of the platform and more games without the same restrictions.

I do want to put this to bed, and I'm not obsessed with getting in the last word, I sincerely state.  I just can't let this last bit go without corrections / defense.  I said repeatedly that I do hope the EXP fans enjoy it, and I meant it.  I do see the benefit to the brand.  I would NOT rather no one get it than some people be able to get it, that isn't my point at all and I feel like you're making a series of Straw Men out of what I actually did say.  Which I continue to stand by, so this most likely is an "agree to disagree".  There's no lack of understanding on my part of what you're saying.  

What I am saying, and have been, is that for those of us who have bought the Evercade And the VS, we have no option to play the Capcom games without buying the new EXP (which is more expensive than either of those were, btw).  (and yes like jgkspsx I have tons of other ways to play these, but that's true of nearly everything anymore  ).  If this was truly a "next generation" situation as famicommander noted (Saturn won't play Genesis or Sega CD!), then I would understand...and honestly I will give that thought as the EXP may indeed not be a new model of Evercade but say, the Dreamcast vs the Saturn?  A new generation that is mostly backwards compatible, maybe?  And maybe they'll make a console version like they did with the VS?  IDK

 

The Capcom deal is a positive towards the future health of the platform, YES.  I agree fully.

 

TLDR version:

But to act like what I and I'm sure lots of others (many agreed with me when I originally posted re: the Vs that I would have bought that over the handheld had they released simultaneously, only bought the handheld because I like the cartridges / boxes / manuals / whole project) is insane is wrong.  We have a complaint that is valid.  I am not saying that Blaze could or should have done differently either (maybe that Capcom could've been less fartfacey about it, who knows what caused the agreement to end up how it did).  I am just saying that as a Capcom fan, as a Blaze / Evercade fan, as a VS fan... this announcement, while good for the brand, leaves me and others in my boat out.  It's like...good that you got Capcom, I guess?  But I'm not shelling out $150 for a handheld I don't need or want.  Get back to me when you get a cartridge that I can play on my VS, and then I'll be excited and ready to order.

 

Ok, and posting this video is a self-own, but I'm funny like that.  This fellow obviously agrees with Bill and famicommander et al:

 

I agree with one commenter who said it best:  "Good points well made but Evercade VS owners who may not be overly happy with the situation (myself included) have legitimate concerns, as you highlighted with one of the issues being, no two player option. I truly hope this isn't Blaze setting a precedent and hope it helps sell more EXPs which will be good for everyone in the long run. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see."

 

[famicommander]

The DSi and New 3DS were not "next generation" machines. They were new iterations of the same machine, just like the EXP. That's an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

And you've still ignored the fact that there are plenty of games that you can only play on the VS, as well as two carts you can't play on the VS.

[Hydro Thunder]

19 minutes ago, famicommander said:

The DSi and New 3DS were not "next generation" machines. They were new iterations of the same machine, just like the EXP. That's an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

And you've still ignored the fact that there are plenty of games that you can only play on the VS, as well as two carts you can't play on the VS.

Bah, personal choice, but "plenty" being a few extras doesn't move the needle for me. Unless you're saying I can unlock Captain Commando or something of similar value by putting in a combination of cartridges, I don't see this as a valid point that's comparable to Final Fight, 1942, Street Fighter, GnG, and others.

 

Nintendo and its userbase and Blaze and its userbase are also not an apples to apples comparison in my book, but again, we can agree to disagree.

 

I think that what some are responding to here isn't my original post saying "that sucks for us" re: this, but to apparently some sort of big controversy with some likely very outspoken people saying Blaze made a huge mistake or saying they've been personally injured or something.  My point was, while related, more confined and specifically saying while the announcement has good to it, it has bad also, and I am not being offered anything that I will purchase though I love both brands and the games being announced.

[roots.genoa]

1 hour ago, famicommander said:

The DSi and New 3DS were not "next generation" machines. They were new iterations of the same machine, just like the EXP. That's an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

And you've still ignored the fact that there are plenty of games that you can only play on the VS, as well as two carts you can't play on the VS.

Also some future games may not work on the original Evercade handheld, because they stated clearly it wouldn't get updates eventually.

[famicommander]

1 hour ago, Hydro Thunder said:

Bah, personal choice, but "plenty" being a few extras doesn't move the needle for me. Unless you're saying I can unlock Captain Commando or something of similar value by putting in a combination of cartridges, I don't see this as a valid point that's comparable to Final Fight, 1942, Street Fighter, GnG, and others.

 

Nintendo and its userbase and Blaze and its userbase are also not an apples to apples comparison in my book, but again, we can agree to disagree.

 

I think that what some are responding to here isn't my original post saying "that sucks for us" re: this, but to apparently some sort of big controversy with some likely very outspoken people saying Blaze made a huge mistake or saying they've been personally injured or something.  My point was, while related, more confined and specifically saying while the announcement has good to it, it has bad also, and I am not being offered anything that I will purchase though I love both brands and the games being announced.

Kubo, Kubo 2, NNNNNN, GoTris, Spacey McRacey, Fairy Fire, and Hummingz are built into the VS and there are a half dozen games and counting that can only be played by putting two carts into the VS at the same time. Your subjective decree that those don't move the needle or aren't comparable to the Capcom games is irrelevant.

 

Namco Arcade 1 and Namco Arcade 2 will work on the original handheld and the EXP, but not the VS. 

 

There is no "bad" here at all. If you don't want to buy the new machine, don't. It's really that simple. Just like everybody who had the original handheld had to decide whether or not to buy the VS. Just like everybody who only has the VS has to deal with not being able to play Namco carts. Boo hoo.

Edited September 4, 2022 by famicommander

[+Defender_2600]

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

Exactly. There never was a mystery. It sucks that not 100% of games are on cartridge, but there's always an obvious reason (and regardless of the platform). Frankly, I'd be (and am) far more pissed about the head scratchers with games like the superior Atari 7800 version of Dark Chambers only being unlocked when you insert both Atari cartridges into a VS. I don't like the idea of unlockable games in general and certainly not on a platform like this.

[Songbird]

Pre-orders are open for the new Evercade EXP handheld, IREM #1, and Toaplan #1! Expected to ship end of November.

 

EXP: https://songbird-productions.com/product/evercade-exp-standard-edition/

IREM #1: https://songbird-productions.com/product/evercade-irem-arcade-collection-1/

Toaplan #1: https://songbird-productions.com/product/evercade-toaplan-arcade-collection-1/