Keatah Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 People seem to be dumb or evasive on ebay. They say new, but when grilled it becomes 90% new. Just cosmetic scratches. Now wtf does that mean? Still "new" as in unused? Or a "little-bit" used? Which then can mean tens of hours as a quick demo, or thousands of hours in an industrial environment and then refurbed with non-oem, out-of-spec parts. Of course China-based sellers love claiming something is new (other). True enough, new to the seller, e-waste purchased in bulk. And sold to the seller as new. And to the seller it is new!. What a twist on words and a reset of the meaning "new". E-waste laundering! New other..? Yeh right. The fucking thing is new or it isn't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 4 hours ago, Keatah said: People seem to be dumb or evasive on ebay. They say new, but when grilled it becomes 90% new. Just cosmetic scratches. Now wtf does that mean? Still "new" as in unused? Or a "little-bit" used? Which then can mean tens of hours as a quick demo, or thousands of hours in an industrial environment and then refurbed with non-oem, out-of-spec parts. Of course China-based sellers love claiming something is new (other). True enough, new to the seller, e-waste purchased in bulk. And sold to the seller as new. And to the seller it is new!. What a twist on words and a reset of the meaning "new". E-waste laundering! New other..? Yeh right. The fucking thing is new or it isn't. Exactly! When the New (Other) description is used I read the product description, because I'm usually hopeful, but I Expect a good explanation. If it's not there I move on. Sometimes there is a reason to use it. For example, Product was unused (brand new), but the box was opened to check the contents or make sure something was intact or even test it...Open Box is another thing I avoid usually, even though I assume it's an honest description. If someone returned something, it could be they just didn't like it, but it could be broken. I once bought some Sony headphones on eBay that were "Open Box". Now the description made it sound like they were demo models or just that the customer chose a different pair after hearing them...Fair enough, and they said "Tested" so I assumed they'd work. However, when I got them they worked for a short bit (very short bit), before one side had dropping audio and general scratchiness...I guess they "tested" them for 5 seconds and never moved the cable at all...They offered up another "Open Box" pair in exchange, but I said No; A Refund would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) I think generally on the "Tested" front what you'll find following the recent trend of lots of A8s, 800XL's in particular, being listed on Ebay, is that a good amount of the sellers are not really retro computer people or even tech savvy. Rather they've seen the recent surge in other people selling/listing A8's - often at stupidly prices, realised they have one in the attic and can make a bit of money. So they get it down, dust it off and find either there is no AV cable or just lack the knowledge to tune it in via RF, etc if they have the means to hook it up to a display. If they have the power supply they'll just plug it in and see a red light and in their minds this is enough for them to state "tested as working" and list it. What I find particularly annoying is those who do hook up the A8 to a screen and it works but then do not test the keyboard. The ready prompt is right there! It take's 20 seconds to just press all the main keys! Fair enough if you aren't aware that the XL/XEs have self test and a keyboard test then you can't test the majority of the function keys so readily. Not testing a keyboard on a retro computer with a built in keyboard is rather like not testing the keys work on a typewriter before selling it!! I've bought A8s which stated tested and that had "working keyboards" and on receipt a good 3rd of the alpha/numeric keys do not respond. (Luckily I am good at fixing A8s these days but still - testing the keyboard is such an obvious and easy thing to do if you have a ready prompt). Of course I'd imagine there will be those sellers who have tested their A8s attic finds, found it to either not power up at all or have issues, (black screens, bad keyboards), and still list as untested. You take your chances but such is the nature of the "not working for parts catagory" on Ebay. Some sellers play it to their advantage. Then there are the rogue sellers who will list something as untested in very poor condition or damaged but insist on holding out for a stupid price or refuse to take additional pics on request. Case in point this A8 800 seller who is really being optimistic given the state of the keyboard, (house clearance job) and they have some bad ratings and history: They are also playing the now commonplace "Very rare" card: Atari 800 Computer & Cartridge. Very Rare. 100% Untested. At least they are selling under the for parts and not working catagory. Still £299 + postage for an 800 in this state which probably has more issues if the keyboard is anything to go by!! Seriously?! From what I've observed, (if you ignore the stupidly high asking prices some list their 800's for like £799(!)) - the average price for a tested working standalone 800 is probably £250. So by that token for the battered one above with missing and damaged keys and potentally more issues inside, I'd expect that to go for between £80-150 tops being realistic - given the price bubble we appear to be in at the mo! Not £299! I dunno - perhaps they think the BASIC cart is is listed with is worth a bit heh heh! Edited September 26, 2022 by Beeblebrox 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 4 hours ago, Beeblebrox said: I think generally on the "Tested" front what you'll find following the recent trend of lots of A8s, 800XL's in particular, being listed on Ebay, is that a good amount of the sellers are not really retro computer people or even tech savvy. Rather they've seen the recent surge in other people selling/listing A8's - often at stupidly prices, realised they have one in the attic and can make a bit of money. Yep, the 'I've done my research' crowd. Any time that phrase is used it's generally a good sign that the seller has absolutely no clue whatsoever as to the actual value of whatever it is they're selling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) An 800 broken keyboard is a possible expensive repair, if it uses those yellow stackpole plunger things (like mine does) then you can't buy those for love nor money, I was sent some by David on here, but even he has not very many (if any) left. Although there is a very interesting bodge using tiny O rings ( can't remember who invented this, my apologies) it's still changing the feel of the keyboard (for the better?). So adding a replacement whole KB from Best and that 800 is now a money pit. And yeah, the 'done my research when selling club' are showing just how little they CARE to know.. Edit: Edited September 26, 2022 by Mclaneinc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) Just this previous month I purchased an LCD panel/module as a replacement for a bad one. A Samsing LTM201UX. Bought it from China and of course it was counterfeit, or repaired using substandard parts not meeting original Samsung specification. Not a total surprise considering how many fake parts and remarked parts come out of there. Panel didn't have good contrast, and even worse viewing angles. As soon as I raised the issue they claimed it was 90% new. WTF that mean? As soon as I did an ebay refund they instantly issued it, told me I could keep it. It cost $300 to ship it back, and I guess they didn't want a run-in with ebay on it. I suppose all it cost me was wasted time. It's sitting in the trash awaiting pickup. Still a happy ending. Found an in-op monitor of the same kind, with bad caps. Fixed it in a jiffy and back in business. For 1/3rd the price too, from a charity house supporter.. Bonus for not having to go out and buy converter'n'monitor from bigbox retail. Don't wanna feed this inflation-powered economy if I don't have to. We're all in advertising-be-damned mode here. Just buying the essentials. Edited October 4, 2022 by Keatah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Maybe I've been lucky, knowing you do get cheap fakes of original devices, most I've bought worked, only one that was a turkey was a signal generator, but "chip" wise, all I've bought seemed ok. One of the main reasons not to buy from China is the very long wait times even though they advertise as a UK business 👎🏾 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Yep, I ordered a hair trimmer from a UK seller, turned out that it was in China in truth, I wrote to the guy and said that if it arrives, and it's faulty or any other issues that I'm only returning it to a UK address because they lied to me. Next thing I get an email saying sorry, and he refunded me and told me to keep the item as a gift......Still use it to this day.. But yeah, UK etc should mean exactly what it says, we know some China based sellers do have UK based delivery people but many don't and just expect you to accept the lie.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said: Yep, I ordered a hair trimmer from a UK seller, turned out that it was in China in truth, I wrote to the guy and said that if it arrives, and it's faulty or any other issues that I'm only returning it to a UK address because they lied to me. Next thing I get an email saying sorry, and he refunded me and told me to keep the item as a gift......Still use it to this day.. But yeah, UK etc should mean exactly what it says, we know some China based sellers do have UK based delivery people but many don't and just expect you to accept the lie.. It's Ebay that allows this scam. I work in fraud for a credit card company. We get calls all day long with the drop-ship scam. It says "ships from (somewhere in the US)" but if there's problem, they try and force you to ship back to China. Maybe not in the UK, but here in the states there ALWAYS "jobs" available as a "shipping manager". Basically they drop ship merch from China to an individual here in the states who then ships them to the buyer via the postal service. Wrong item? Busted? Cheap crap that falls apart first time you use it? No prob, just send it back. To China. So now that $50 item will cost $47 to ship back. Just another form of bait & switch. Ebay sucks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Ebay don't give a sh*t, it's all fee's to them, the only person that cares is the buyer, such a wrong way around.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 At least it's fairly obvious it's from China, 2 weeks+ delivery for an item in the UK 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Spanish Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 https://www.ebay.com/itm/204106589142?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110010%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.DISCCARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142323%26meid%3D6621887d2b414a8480c5802901a9c9f6%26pid%3D101123%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D255759890320%26itm%3D204106589142%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DApple&_trksid=p2563228.c101123.m1982&amdata=cksum%3A2041065891426621887d2b414a8480c5802901a9c9f6|enc%3AAQAHAAAA4C9MqZj5rvev%2FtpGrc%2FLsyP2buX47UN%2BKRPBywlHdB3L3q8mdJY6oTuZicdzk3Dr5aMQkBLJ9u4tLRjS%2FkLCKGR5v%2FhVKrKltkzU5UhjjkyebcUoXJmLfIt%2Fh3SyS5fAkl10ba4dMz45bry7%2BE1dnX7YCzn2QLoav2qiei4586GtT2M0M%2BAKbC2f%2FVdrTYm9tB1MkinU%2FHHgMa04VAtTuKBtEU4IweYC2BRdtIPeu3%2BXQIo6jhlMFThLkWR3iA9znCKI0KMzInXwvYQ3C4jG5HXcOlNC7p2cuoTlfrB96bal|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2563228&epid=1477889918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Standard early Apple II (not plus) units rightfully command high prices. And it's good to see that. With province they generally trade for much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 On 10/4/2022 at 7:46 AM, Mclaneinc said: Ebay don't give a sh*t, it's all fee's to them, the only person that cares is the buyer, such a wrong way around.. Well I'm glad that ebay is buyer-centric. They'll side with the buyer more often than not. Like with my recent LCD panel experience - I could count on a refund if anything wasn't right. And I don't feel bad about keeping it, seller wasted my time my lying about the condition. Gotta make'em pay.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Sorry, my wording was off, I was trying (and failing) to say that the only person that cares that it all works right is the buyer, the seller gives no crap, ebay just takes the cash unless there's no way to avoid getting involved. The system should be putting equal reliability on all parties involved. At the moment, the poor old buyer just has to pay and hope, they really just want it all to go without lies and the need for interventions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 The thing I "fear" most is the lost time when ordering something like parts to fix something. I have no reservations about demanding (and I do demand) refunds/returns, at the seller's expense, if it turns out to be other than advertised. Doubly so if advert as new. I figure if you're gonna waste my time I'll behave likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhd Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 On 10/4/2022 at 2:49 AM, Keatah said: Panel didn't have good contrast, and even worse viewing angles. As soon as I raised the issue they claimed it was 90% new. WTF that mean? As soon as I did an ebay refund they instantly issued it, told me I could keep it. It cost $300 to ship it back, and I guess they didn't want a run-in with ebay on it. I suppose all it cost me was wasted time. It's sitting in the trash awaiting pickup. Now that's a waste; you should have sold it on! Keep these things in circulation -- maybe it would even be purchased by another reseller. The Circle of Life and all that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, jhd said: Now that's a waste; you should have sold it on! Keep these things in circulation -- maybe it would even be purchased by another reseller. The Circle of Life and all that. IMHO it's substandard, anything more than about 30' off-axis and you can see the colors change. Blacks and darker colors take on a foil-like luster. A genuine panel lets you go 80' off-axis, and then the colors just lose contrast. Better than the very first laptop displays, but not quite up to 2005 standards. Thought about swapping the backlight as a test. If its spectrum was wrong, that could cause the issue..not sure..? Maybe it's still out there and I can conduct and experiment. All in all, many displays are pleasant to look at. This one kept you hunting around. And differences between top and bottom were too annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 I recently sold most of my retro collection. About $4500 worth of equipment. However, due to then buying about $2500 of equipment, I'd say I only got $2000 net. Well, it's better than nothing. Lesson is, I guess one has to first cure their retro habit before trying to reduce a collection. I got to interact with a ton of buyers, and sellers. The worst experience was with a buyer that sent me a message the moment the auction ended, they asked me why the price went up at the last second. I said, that is a snipe. Some people bid at the close of an auction. They said they'd be willing to pay a different amount, but would not be paying their winning bid. I said, that's not how it works. They left negative feedback - the only person that had any real negative reaction like that, was the person that actually didn't buy anything and was entirely in the wrong. Of course, e-bay did nothing. I have to say though - I totally agree with what you all are saying about sellers, and had the same experience myself when I was the buyer - which is these sellers seem to know Atari has a value on e-bay but they don't know Atari. They will have 3 Atari 800 for sale, and then list an 810 as untested because they "don't have a power supply. " Uhm, I'm pretty sure they could've used one of their power supplies, they just didn't know what power supply might work. Anyway, so I got an untested 810 - it worked. It was bundled with other equipment in the auctino, I wasn't really looking to buy an 810 but I was pleasantly surprised that it worked. And that was my experience, 80% of the untested equipment I bought, actually worked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Saw this rather expensive 65XE - (which a year ago someone had linked to in this thread) - is still for sale. I wonder why it hasn't sold yet?!?! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363579453880? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: I wonder why it hasn't sold yet?!?! It should have sold by now, it's "Very Rare", surprised someone hasn't snapped up that bargain 🤣 It must be nice living in "cloud Cuckoo land" Edited October 17, 2022 by TGB1718 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, TGB1718 said: It should have sold by now, it's "Very Rare", surprised someone hasn't snapped up that bargain 🤣 It must be nice living in "cloud Cuckoo land" It think it's maybe because the keys have a slight yellowing?!? Yes...that must be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Yeah, there's 2 sources of these Arabic models and they seem to have quite a few of these really rare machines....I think they came up earlier in this thread.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuxon86 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: Saw this rather expensive 65XE - (which a year ago someone had linked to in this thread) - is still for sale. I wonder why it hasn't sold yet?!?! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363579453880? It may be just a place holder. Some sellers will jack up the price when they're out of stock instead of removing the listing. Save a bit of time when they get new stock. I bought a few systems from those egyptians resellers and I've been really satisfied. They're a good source for Pal machines and for model we didn't go to enjoy in the good old day, like MSX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 34 minutes ago, Tuxon86 said: It may be just a place holder. Some sellers will jack up the price when they're out of stock instead of removing the listing. Save a bit of time when they get new stock. What you're seeing with this particular auction is son.of.sun's standard pricing model: they'll have the machine available, but really do want to charge the earth for it. 34 minutes ago, Tuxon86 said: I bought a few systems from those egyptians resellers and I've been really satisfied. They're a good source for Pal machines and for model we didn't go to enjoy in the good old day, like MSX. There are a couple of other Egyptian sellers who are fairly reasonably priced. Frankly, I'd have no problem with buying from them, but they tend to not have anything I want at a price I'm willing to pay by the time shipping is factored in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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