Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Matt_B]

Recommending The Secret is a pretty bad sign, while we're at it.

[jerseystyle]

28 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I found his Little Mermaid comments more disturbing. 

Best example, too me, is when he was on a YouTube channel with his CHUDS and one them had his arm in a sling. TT proceeded to ask him if he was “jerking off” too hard and riffed on this idea for a while as everyone laughed. This is a man in his mid 50s, talking about his family friendly console that would get away from the hyper specialized modern game cesspool. 
 

What a hypocrite.  Also, creepy.

[MrBeefy]

9 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Best example, too me, is when he was on a YouTube channel with his CHUDS and one them had his arm in a sling. TT proceeded to ask him if he was “jerking off” too hard and riffed on this idea for a while as everyone laughed. This is a man in his mid 50s, talking about his family friendly console that would get away from the hyper specialized modern game cesspool. 
 

What a hypocrite.  Also, creepy.

He also talked to a 14 year old about Custers Revenge on YT.....

 

You can see snips at the 2:14:51 minute mark.

Personally I might take a chance on a random stranger watching my kid over Tommy. I know for sure the latter is a poor choice.

 

 

[Flojomojo]

Regarding Cornhole …

 

I think it was a mistake for Amico guys to show the control calibration screen the way they did. It created a lot of confusion and undermined what they were trying to do. 

 

They never did show a working, finished demo using the official controllers, with actual players, not company officials, or their family members. 

 

The footage we DID see looked faked and/or used smartphones as controllers, which seems like cheating to me since they have gyros that the Amico controls lacked. You can catch quick glimpses of the Ippisch kids pantomiming the throwing action. 
 

We also saw downgraded graphics, typos, and a real lack of progress or sense of fun. 
 

Cornhole might have been the “fastest growing sport in the United States” for a little while, but it’s been surpassed by pickleball. Supposedly lacrosse, pickleball, triathlons, eSports, adventure racing, soccer, and MMA are the top rated for fastest growing. 

 

I wonder if the Amico license to use the name of the American Cornhole League has lapsed, and if so, how much money was wasted along the way?

[MattPilz]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:54 AM, mr_me said:

It was discussed here in this thread, game instructions posted.

I still agree with all my comments back then, too. The optional instructions and usage is overcomplicated. We never saw a demonstration of how accurate (or not) the game plays without using that optional adjustment, but it is assumed the entire secondary system was added specifically to cure the deficits in their controller behavior, and that is what was illustrated in the office prototype video. It looks like without the secondary controls the only use of the controller is to hold a button in and then release it to control power level. I have played cornhole games on Quest 2 and you control every aspect just by naturally swinging your arm with the controller.

 

"Some of you may remember the prototype we showed a while ago for Cornhole's throwing UI. Today we'll show you it to you in the game, working with our controllers." <Shows 10 seconds of cuts and not even a single actual interaction with the on-screen controller or how those features affect the user experience.> 

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

They never did show a working, finished demo using the official controllers, with actual players, not company officials, or their family members. 

It really should had been one of their deep dive videos, since it is also a pack-in title and one of the most talked about as far as use of their motion controls. We didn't really need more clips of Shark Shark or Astrosmash as those were the two more displayed titles for years, but Cornhole remains elusive with no genuine on-screen demonstration of it at all.

 

 

 

[mr_me]

The original version of Amico Cornhole calculated the vertical angle from the throw motion.  With the new version the vertical angle was changed to an option using on-screen graphics.  In most cases people will use the default/optimal angle.  The old version was more of a simulation but they made it sound like it was more tedious for users to get the right angle, force, and also keeping the throw straight.  The new version makes it easier for novice players as they can consistently get the optimal angle, and only have to deal with force and throwing straight.

 

The new version also adds the ability to change the target on the board and the player body position.  These features are helpful with, for example, throwing around a bag sitting on the board that's in your path, and are also completely optional.

 

The Amico controller, like a Switch or Playstation controller, has an accelerometer and gyroscope but lacks a magnetometer found in many smartphones.  The magnetometer doesn't give absolute position in space but does give the absolute orientation where a gyroscope only measures rotation.  It was said in an interview that the original Amico Cornhole used magnetometer data to help calculate the vertical angle of throw.  Could be that extra data makes it a bit more accurate.

 

The Quest 2 headset has cameras that tracks the hand controllers.  So it gets direct data of hand controllers position in 3D space where the game controllers have to try and calculate it using accelerometer and gyroscope data.

 

8 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Regarding Cornhole …

 

I think it was a mistake for Amico guys to show the control calibration screen the way they did. It created a lot of confusion and undermined what they were trying to do. 

 

They never did show a working, finished demo using the official controllers, with actual players, not company officials, or their family members. 

 

The footage we DID see looked faked and/or used smartphones as controllers, which seems like cheating to me since they have gyros that the Amico controls lacked. You can catch quick glimpses of the Ippisch kids pantomiming the throwing action. 
 

We also saw downgraded graphics, typos, and a real lack of progress or sense of fun. 
 

Cornhole might have been the “fastest growing sport in the United States” for a little while, but it’s been surpassed by pickleball. Supposedly lacrosse, pickleball, triathlons, eSports, adventure racing, soccer, and MMA are the top rated for fastest growing. 

 

I wonder if the Amico license to use the name of the American Cornhole League has lapsed, and if so, how much money was wasted along the way?

The March 2022 Cornhole footage was with Amico controllers.  Do you think it was faked?

 

On 3/28/2023 at 7:03 PM, SegaSnatcher said:

PS5's Dualsense trackpad is pretty decent.   

How well does its trackpad work as a primary input?  It's location in the middle looks a bit awkward for a primary input compared to the trackpad on the Steam controller for example.

Edited March 30, 2023 by mr_me

[SegaSnatcher]

13 minutes ago, mr_me said:

How well does its trackpad work as a primary input?  It's location in the middle looks a bit awkward for a primary input compared to the trackpad on the Steam controller for example.

It's quite accurate/sensitive when used to move say some type of cursor around.  
 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by SegaSnatcher

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I still agree with all my comments back then, too. The optional instructions and usage is overcomplicated. We never saw a demonstration of how accurate (or not) the game plays without using that optional adjustment, but it is assumed the entire secondary system was added specifically to cure the deficits in their controller behavior, and that is what was illustrated in the office prototype video. It looks like without the secondary controls the only use of the controller is to hold a button in and then release it to control power level. I have played cornhole games on Quest 2 and you control every aspect just by naturally swinging your arm with the controller.

 

"Some of you may remember the prototype we showed a while ago for Cornhole's throwing UI. Today we'll show you it to you in the game, working with our controllers." <Shows 10 seconds of cuts and not even a single actual interaction with the on-screen controller or how those features affect the user experience.> 

It really should had been one of their deep dive videos, since it is also a pack-in title and one of the most talked about as far as use of their motion controls. We didn't really need more clips of Shark Shark or Astrosmash as those were the two more displayed titles for years, but Cornhole remains elusive with no genuine on-screen demonstration of it at all.

 

This was a horrible setup and showed how confusing going to that controller design was. Change the target with middle of screen and hand position with the bottom of the screen? Not simple, not intuitive, and obviously lack any real knowledge as to what makes a motion game fun. It was redesigned because their controllers sucked and couldn't handle it. Hans kids if not faking 100% were using phones in any shot that had the TV. 

 

The reason you never saw a deep dive is you either would have seen how miserable it was or they were hiding more stolen assets.

 

Think about that long list of Deep Dives we were suppose to get. They stopped pretty quickly in showing anything new when the first one they showed off as being finished, was littered with stolen assets.

2 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

It's quite accurate/sensitive when used to move say some type of cursor around.  
 

Beep boop it was not Tommy approved as being great, therefore it's not. Beep boop.

[MrBeefy]

10 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

 

I wonder if the Amico license to use the name of the American Cornhole League has lapsed, and if so, how much money was wasted along the way?

That's a simple answer. $17 million was wasted.

[roots.genoa]

As a weird coincidence, look what Steam dragged in: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1702130/ACL_Pro_Cornhole/

[digdugnate]

 

sounds prophetic to me. 😎

[atarifan88]

5 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

As a weird coincidence, look what Steam dragged in: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1702130/ACL_Pro_Cornhole/

Now if they could get that on the Switch utilizing the motion controls, that would be great!

[roots.genoa]

7 hours ago, atarifan88 said:

Now if they could get that on the Switch utilizing the motion controls, that would be great!

I don't think Joy-con's (or Wiimote or anything) accelerometer is precise enough to pull it off to be honest. In Wii Bowling or Wii Golf, you would aim with the d-pad, not the motion. And in Wii Tennis, the ball is just sent left or right based on your position and your timing (if you hit before or after the ball passed by you). The PlayStation Move or a VR controller would be a lot more precise, because its precise position is detected by the camera.

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, digdugnate said:

 

sounds prophetic to me. 😎

It actually looks better and gameplay shown makes more sense than what was shown on Amico. The Amico controls showed that they really don't understand how to play cornhole. 

 

Now if it is a buggy mess they need to fix it, but it definitely shows itself to be a more competent design.

 

Before some robot comes beep bopping in here let me explain. The Amico controls showed aiming on the board. Your aim should never deviate from a straight line towards the hole. Being able to aim your bag to the left made no sense. Amico controls also let you move your character left and right. As a cornhole player you stand in a fixed position.

3 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

I don't think Joy-con's (or Wiimote or anything) accelerometer is precise enough to pull it off to be honest. In Wii Bowling or Wii Golf, you would aim with the d-pad, not the motion. And in Wii Tennis, the ball is just sent left or right based on your position and your timing (if you hit before or after the ball passed by you). The PlayStation Move or a VR controller would be a lot more precise, because its precise position is detected by the camera.

I think you are wrong in that. The joycons can do it. It would function the same way Darts does on Clubhouse Games. The only difference is for cornhold you do underhand motion instead. The other big difference is no need to aim left and right like it darts. So the use of joycons for cornhole would be less complicated than what is needed in darts.

 

Switch Sports Golf would actually be a similar set up, minus turning the player. The only difference with golf is arc would be more determined by how flat you can keep it. The twisting of wrists would still function like a hook or slice in cornhole. Power would be done similarly.

[Matt_B]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I don't think Joy-con's (or Wiimote or anything) accelerometer is precise enough to pull it off to be honest. In Wii Bowling or Wii Golf, you would aim with the d-pad, not the motion. And in Wii Tennis, the ball is just sent left or right based on your position and your timing (if you hit before or after the ball passed by you). The PlayStation Move or a VR controller would be a lot more precise, because its precise position is detected by the camera.

The original Wii Remote only had an accelerometer. All it could really do is detect how fast it was being moved without reference to its orientation. That's why you needed to aim either with conventional controls or using the IR camera as a pointer, depending on the game.

 

Joy-Cons are more akin to the Motion Plus, with added gyroscopes. If you ever played Wii Sports Resort, it had a lot of sports where you used the gyro to aim, and the Switch can do so even more accurately than that.

 

[mr_me]

5 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I think you are wrong in that. The joycons can do it. It would function the same way Darts does on Clubhouse Games. The only difference is for cornhold you do underhand motion instead. The other big difference is no need to aim left and right like it darts. So the use of joycons for cornhole would be less complicated than what is needed in darts.

 

Switch Sports Golf would actually be a similar set up, minus turning the player. The only difference with golf is arc would be more determined by how flat you can keep it. The twisting of wrists would still function like a hook or slice in cornhole. Power would be done similarly.

With that darts game you are aiming with on screen graphics, not the throw motion.  You are using motion control to move the aim cursor just as you're using motion control to set the throw angle in Amico Cornhole.

 

On 3/29/2023 at 9:47 PM, SegaSnatcher said:

It's quite accurate/sensitive when used to move say some type of cursor around. 

No doubt it's a quality touchpad on the playstation controller but I was talking the ergonomics.  You'd either have to hold the controller in one hand and use fingers from other hand or hold it normally and reach over the dpad or face buttons.  On the Steam controller the touchpad is in a prime location, where the face buttons or dpad would be on a playstation controller.

[MrBeefy]

39 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

The original Wii Remote only had an accelerometer. All it could really do is detect how fast it was being moved without reference to its orientation. That's why you needed to aim either with conventional controls or using the IR camera as a pointer, depending on the game.

 

Joy-Cons are more akin to the Motion Plus, with added gyroscopes. If you ever played Wii Sports Resort, it had a lot of sports where you used the gyro to aim, and the Switch can do so even more accurately than that.

 

I loved playing Frisbee with the dog in Resort.

[MrBeefy]

Also for the ignorant who don't know what they are talking about here is a video on Clubhouse darts. Motion used in both aim and throwing.

Amico cornhole video showing it working is here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beep boop.

 

[Tommy2D]

I was playing an old quirky Genesis/Mega Drive game called "Decap Attack" and it's a good example of a game that uses character momentum/inertia. When you change direction, the character has a cartoony backpedaling animation to give you some sense of in-game physics. 

 

Even the original Super Mario Bros had a sprite for changing direction. 

 

This made me think of Astrosmash and how IE claimed that what appeared to be lag was actually intentionally programmed inertia. You could make a case for having ship inertia, even if it would seem out of place for a fast-twitch arcade game, but why not throw in a few frames of animation to give that more plausibility?  Give the ships some side booster rockets or something to show the instant response. 

 

Oh well, it's another reminder that there are a zillion games, both old and new, out there to play. 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Tommy2D

[Matt_B]

28 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I loved playing Frisbee with the dog in Resort.

That's why you don't see nearly as many games with motion controls these days. They peaked right there and you can't improve on perfection. 😄

[SegaSnatcher]

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Also for the ignorant who don't know what they are talking about here is a video on Clubhouse darts. Motion used in both aim and throwing.

 

 

This video probably gives a better idea.
 

 

[roots.genoa]

6 hours ago, Matt_B said:

The original Wii Remote only had an accelerometer. All it could really do is detect how fast it was being moved without reference to its orientation. That's why you needed to aim either with conventional controls or using the IR camera as a pointer, depending on the game.

 

Joy-Cons are more akin to the Motion Plus, with added gyroscopes. If you ever played Wii Sports Resort, it had a lot of sports where you used the gyro to aim, and the Switch can do so even more accurately than that.

 

I guess you're right but in the end, I don't think I ever saw a game using Motion Plus with really good 1-to-1 motion controls. Even in VR, it's always a problem for the system to differentiate a backwards movement to get momentum from the actual forward throw. It doesn't work consistently enough to be really fun imho.

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

I guess you're right but in the end, I don't think I ever saw a game using Motion Plus with really good 1-to-1 motion controls. Even in VR, it's always a problem for the system to differentiate a backwards movement to get momentum from the actual forward throw. It doesn't work consistently enough to be really fun imho.

Yeah, that whole 1-to-1 correspondence thing was definitely overselling the Motion Plus. I'd guess that it just made for better hype than saying that you could now swing your sword in eight directions rather than just the one.

Anyway, the likes of darts, bowling and cornhole don't really need that. Just the ability to independently aim and throw is enough, and that's well within the reach of a lot of modern devices.

[atarifan88]

15 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I don't think Joy-con's (or Wiimote or anything) accelerometer is precise enough to pull it off to be honest. In Wii Bowling or Wii Golf, you would aim with the d-pad, not the motion. And in Wii Tennis, the ball is just sent left or right based on your position and your timing (if you hit before or after the ball passed by you). The PlayStation Move or a VR controller would be a lot more precise, because its precise position is detected by the camera.

You're probably right. Maybe cornhole was only meant to be a failure on the Amico. 😄

[atarifan88]

9 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I loved playing Frisbee with the dog in Resort.

The Switch needs some disc golf! I play actual disc golf regularly and it would be nice to be able to play it on the Switch.