Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[mr_me]

They didn't get the funding they were expecting in 2020 so that impacted game development.  Much of the funding they did get came in 2021, but after the manufacturing debacle, and employee growth you can see that money running out.

 

17 hours ago, rayik said:

Is there anything at all that Tommy Tallerico said that was actually true about the Amico?  Interesting challenge if someone wants to take it up  

 

Amico games can only be experienced with the Amico controller

Simple for grandma to set up and play

Karma engine to balance gameplay for different skill levels

Amico games are not mobile games

50 hand picked developers working on games

20 games at launch with 40 to follow soon

All games at least 7 out of 10 

 

And on and on and on

 

Amazing all that BS had moderator support here

Amico games were written to start players using the controller touchscreen.  That had to be modified in Amico Shark Shark and Astrosmash for ports to systems using other controllers.

 

The Amico console was designed to be playable with the packin games without connecting to the internet or creating accounts. Plug and play out of the box.

 

17 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

... It was telling how tribal things got with an us versus them mentality, when it was Amico fanboys against the VCS, a battle not of titans, but of relative fleas, and how even that backfired spectacularly.

...

Did that happen?  There's always the odd few but a lot of the VCS bashing here was from Atari fans and the Amico followers mostly stuck to the Q&A thread.  And some Amico youtubers also ordered the VCS.

 

15 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Yup. He ran the corporate reddit and he disappeared as mod after they fired basically everyone. It is pretty easy to see him astroturfing. They astroturfed on Reddit to having employees act like they weren't. I think it was RXScram or whatever who almost seemed to accidently out themselves as an employee here. It has been a while since I looked at that.

...

Suspicions with Grudge but no evidence.  We knew about Rxscram early on, the former CEO even mentioned it.

[Hwlngmad]

The burial on the Amico continues.  Honestly, Intellivision just needs to give up the ghost, sell the IP dirt cheap to someone, like Atari, and move the #*@$ on.

 

[jerseystyle]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

 

Amico games were written to start players using the controller touchscreen.  That had to be modified in Amico Shark Shark and Astrosmash for ports to systems using other controllers.

 

What are you responding to? I feel like we’re witnessing a glitch in the programming in real time.

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Hwlngmad said:

The burial on the Amico continues.  Honestly, Intellivision just needs to give up the ghost, sell the IP dirt cheap to someone, like Atari, and move the #*@$ on.

They are reducing the amount of preorder $$ they guaranteed to 100% refund at anytime. That's it. They know this won't fund manufacturing. With EOL being a serious issue, they would probably need to redo the boards by the time they'd even get close to having the money.

 

It is pretty obvious at this point to anyone who doesn't enjoy suckling on the lies of Tommy, that this was a buddy system. Hire friends, not competent people for the job, drain the coffers, hopefully sell and bail, before it got to where they were suppose to make anything.

 

What is funny is Amico Home is literally exhibiting the same bugs with controllers that it did at the CrayBroLa event. It loses connection frequently. 

1 hour ago, jerseystyle said:

What are you responding to? I feel like we’re witnessing a glitch in the programming in real time.

BEEP BOOP 

 

Anyone remember seeing Cloudy with Xbox I puts and Space Strikers using Xbox controllers? I 'member. Suckling Tommy must have some memory altering effects on some.

 

You know what wasn't modified? Their inneptness, incompetent, and impotence. They have to have like 800 years of experience in that at this point. 😝

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, jerseystyle said:

What are you responding to? I feel like we’re witnessing a glitch in the programming in real time.

I can to add the earlier response.  In addition to the touchscreen requirements, the Amico disc is a different feel from a thumbstick, so the ports to other systems is a different experience. Plus the player balancing in Amico Shark Shark, requiring a display on the controllers had to be  dropped in those ports.

[MrBeefy]

Here's another video from Slopes on the Amico games.

 

 these games don't look good and do nothing in the way of making them more accessible than games already on the market. They missed their demographic big time.

 

The Karma Engine is real. Not in their games of course, but in how they have a bad rep and basically killed Intellivision. Well done!

[Razzie.P]

I just got an "end of year update" email from them.  Looks like they're basically trying to get us to buy an Amazon tablet or Fire TV Stick now because --

 

"Intellivision is an Amazon affiliate partner. Using the above shopping links does not cost you any additional charges but Intellivision does get a small commission that helps us keep the dream alive."

 

 

 

 

[Matt_B]

I mused a while back if it would be possible to get Amico Home running on a Chromecast or Fire TV, so wouldn't be terribly surprised if that gets revealed as the official solution.

 

The latest version of the Fire TV Cube is pretty powerful, so I'd fancy its chances. The Stick less so, but I wouldn't think it impossible. It just depends on how much of a GPU the games really need.

[SteveTheColecoDude]

Including affiliate links in their newsletter while claiming it's to help "keep the dream alive" is such a pathetic move. They know there's no chance whatsoever of getting enough money for manufacturing, so it's purely them (Phil probably) trying to get a few extra dollars. What, the six figure salaries over the last 4-5 years for doing bugger all wasn't enough?

 

I truly don't know how they aren't completely embarrassed at the level of desperation they continue to show.

Edited December 19, 2023 by SteveTheColecoDude

[mr_me]

10 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I mused a while back if it would be possible to get Amico Home running on a Chromecast or Fire TV, so wouldn't be terribly surprised if that gets revealed as the official solution.

 

The latest version of the Fire TV Cube is pretty powerful, so I'd fancy its chances. The Stick less so, but I wouldn't think it impossible. It just depends on how much of a GPU the games really need.

The latest Chromecast TV is similar in power to the Fire TV stick.  Should be the 4k models since the Fire TV HD units only have 1GB RAM.  The Amico GPU is several times more powerful, so the games they've ported so far are only using a fraction of it.  The Fire TV Cube is more powerful than an Amico.

 

Still not a legitimate solution without proper controllers.  They've also mentioned a size limit porting games to these stores, so the largest games could be an issue as well.

Edited December 19, 2023 by mr_me

[jerseystyle]

20 minutes ago, mr_me said:

The latest Chromecast TV is similar in power to the Fire TV stick.  Should be the 4k models since the Fire TV HD units only have 1GB RAM.  The Amico GPU is several times more powerful, so the games they've ported so far are only using a fraction of it.  The Fire TV Cube is more powerful than an Amico.

 

Still not a legitimate solution without proper controllers.  They've also mentioned a size limit porting games to these stores, so the largest games could be an issue as well.

Why, oh why, are you still talking about this company as if they are in any way legitimate? You think Phil is up at night wondering how best to port a game to the Fire Stick? Or that John Alvarado is fixing issues between deep dives into Q Anon forums? There is no “they” that is a credible source of information, even though you’ve leaned on random “engineer” quotes for years. The way you still talk about IE would give people the impression it’s a viable entity as opposed to a sack of garbage feeding on lies.

[+lawdawg710]

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

The latest Chromecast TV is similar in power to the Fire TV stick.  Should be the 4k models since the Fire TV HD units only have 1GB RAM.  The Amico GPU is several times more powerful, so the games they've ported so far are only using a fraction of it.  The Fire TV Cube is more powerful than an Amico.

 

Still not a legitimate solution without proper controllers.  They've also mentioned a size limit porting games to these stores, so the largest games could be an issue as well.

I am now convinced that you are a poorly written AI program and just respond randomly for no apparent or wanted reason at all!!!!  At least your entertaining, thank you!

[mr_me]

2 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

Why, oh why, are you still talking about this company as if they are in any way legitimate? You think Phil is up at night wondering how best to port a game to the Fire Stick? Or that John Alvarado is fixing issues between deep dives into Q Anon forums? There is no “they” that is a credible source of information, even though you’ve leaned on random “engineer” quotes for years. The way you still talk about IE would give people the impression it’s a viable entity as opposed to a sack of garbage feeding on lies.

On the contrary, I said it's not a legitimate solution and mentioned other issues they might not be able to address because of a lack of resources.  We've heard they have one software guy, nobody to do hardware/firmware.  All their games were programmed by third party developers.  They might be able to handle some of the things required to port their games to these platforms but not others.  So as you indicated, if the cost of porting a game is high they might not bother.

 

And the "random" engineer quote was brought to this thread by others.  I commented on it.  There were also other non-random engineer recordings.

[Matt_B]

Of course it's not a legitimate solution.

 

If, back in 2018, they'd said that they were going to create a gaming ecosystem that'd run on a Fire TV Stick, they'd have been laughed out of town by even the few investors that they had interested.

Yet, here we are, at the end of 2023, with them mailing out affiliate links for people to buy one to do just that. I've seen the e-mail now and they're implying that even the basic $30 model will do the job. So much for needing the power of the Adreno 506.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Matt_B

[Hwlngmad]

4 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Of course it's not a legitimate solution.

 

If, back in 2018, they'd said that they were going to create a gaming ecosystem that'd run on a Fire TV Stick, they'd have been laughed out of town by even the few investors that they had interested.

Yet, here we are, at the end of 2023, with them mailing out affiliate links for people to buy one to do just that. I've seen the e-mail now and they're implying that even the basic $30 model will do the job. So much for needing the power of the Adreno 506.

Speaking of the Amazon Fire TV, the No Swear Gamer has a video just about that to help pile it on.

 

[Flojomojo]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:03 PM, MrBeefy said:

Well they needed complete games to show off too.

 

Think about how those Deep Dives were suppose to be of completed games. Then Battle Tanks Tanks Armor happened. 🤣

 

Really people have earned their willy wonky Amico Home experience to keep supporting them after blatant theft of other IPs. Don't forget about the Star Fox text in Moon Patrol too.

Amico has always been creatively bankrupt. There are no new ideas in there. They even bolluxed "like the old intellivision, but instead of the keypad overlays, you get a little screen" that Intellivision Productions managed to deliver on the Nintendo DS version of Intellivision Lives. Their retro reimagined remakes were profoundly lacking in imagination, and from what we have been shown, shine far less brightly than the originals from the 1980s. 

On 12/18/2023 at 9:21 AM, Hwlngmad said:

The burial on the Amico continues.  Honestly, Intellivision just needs to give up the ghost, sell the IP dirt cheap to someone, like Atari, and move the #*@$ on.

 

Good video. They're right to be angry. Would Atari even want Intellivision IP in this state? They'd probably be taking on a lot of debt, disappointed customers, lawsuits, and bad feelings. I wouldn't want anything that had been in @Tommy Tallarico's possession. I don't believe in curses or karma, I just wouldn't want it. 

16 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

I just got an "end of year update" email from them.  Looks like they're basically trying to get us to buy an Amazon tablet or Fire TV Stick now because --

 

"Intellivision is an Amazon affiliate partner. Using the above shopping links does not cost you any additional charges but Intellivision does get a small commission that helps us keep the dream alive."

Again with the "retail partners!" At least in this case it's just a tiny kickback from good ordered with the affiliate link. No thank you!

16 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I mused a while back if it would be possible to get Amico Home running on a Chromecast or Fire TV, so wouldn't be terribly surprised if that gets revealed as the official solution.

 

The latest version of the Fire TV Cube is pretty powerful, so I'd fancy its chances. The Stick less so, but I wouldn't think it impossible. It just depends on how much of a GPU the games really need.

Unless they're really terribly optimized, I suspect they'd be fine on just about any little potato computer. I had a Fire stick that played a passable game of Crossy Road, which happens to be a lot more fun than anything on offer from Amico. Also, the Amazon devices can stream video, so unlike Amico, they aren't completely useless. 

 

https://www.crossyroad.com

 

[mr_me]

44 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Of course it's not a legitimate solution.

 

If, back in 2018, they'd said that they were going to create a gaming ecosystem that'd run on a Fire TV Stick, they'd have been laughed out of town by even the few investors that they had interested.

Yet, here we are, at the end of 2023, with them mailing out affiliate links for people to buy one to do just that. I've seen the e-mail now and they're implying that even the basic $30 model will do the job. So much for needing the power of the Adreno 506.

That is what the critics were suggesting back then.  To forget about a hardware platform and put games on existing platforms, perhaps supplying controllers.  Wouldn't have been possible with Chromecasts and Fire TV back then but the new units have cpu that exceeds the Amico spec although fewer cores, not quite with the gpu.  For players, if it runs the games, it can replace an Amico console, missing are the controllers.  For investors it is different.

 

The basic model is also a 4k unit, same gpu and 2GB RAM, storage is smaller.  It's the Fire TV stick HD model that only has 1GB ram, same gpu so not sure what it can handle.

[Matt_B]

Elsewhere, Netflix have been testing their gaming ecosystem on Chromecast and Fire TV, with you being able to use your phone as a controller.

 

https://about.netflix.com/en/news/testing-games-on-more-devices

 

Seeing as they've got a bunch of award-winning indie games on the books there might soon be a legitimate reason to pick one up as a gaming device.

 

In the meantime, I suppose you can run PPSSPP on it.

[MrTrust]

6 minutes ago, mr_me said:

That is what the critics were suggesting back then.  To forget about a hardware platform and put games on existing platforms, perhaps supplying controllers.

 

 

This was a computer game that was distributed on a 7" vinyl single.  In order to play it, you were supposed to take the record, make a 33 1/3 RPM recording of it on cassette (manually adjusting the volume to stay within the appropriate range), and then use the cassette to load the game into the computer's RAM.

This is less silly and Goldbergian a software implementation than the Amico home thing.

 

27 minutes ago, mr_me said:

For players, if it runs the games, it can replace an Amico console, missing are the controllers.

 

But the games are shit, so who cares?  These were supposed to be pack-in games that you got free with your system, so you'd have something to do with it until you got your EWJ4, or Rigid Force Redux, or Finnegan Fox, or any of the eighty-five thousand games That Would Be Something that were Not Launch But Close.  Take the console out of the equation, and what are you left with?  The stupidest way of playing Astrosmash imaginable at an absurd price.

 

I've seen people buy a lot of gaming hardware that I think is pointless, and many reading this would say "look who's talking" since I bought not just one but two VCS, but at least everyone who bought the $40 Galaga handheld with 6 games on it from the Walgreens gets 6 good games to play, and it will work until the components fail.  People are going to pay $60 to play these four shovelware games and the apps are going to be deprecated in two years anyway.

 

That they are selling this to anyone for good money is tantamount to theft, in my view.

 

[jerseystyle]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

That is what the critics were suggesting back then.  To forget about a hardware platform and put games on existing platforms, perhaps supplying controllers.  

No one was suggesting this. This is a ridiculous statement. What people said was to port games to consoles (switch, PA4, etc) to build a viable base for a console. NOT this insane set up involving multiple phones and fire sticks. C’mon man, to say that is straight up disingenuous.

[livingonwheels]

From today's Amico Discord:

 

Discord user 1: Have you considered starting some sort of crowdfunding campaign for the manufacturing of just the controllers? I would think many of us would support such an endeavor especially if you pack in a game or two with the controller fundraising campaign.

 

Discord User #2: I'd be on board with this!

 

Alvarado: We have considered a crowdfunding campaign for controllers.  Unfortunately it would most likely be savaged and sunk by the very active group of detractors that sank our Start Engine campaign.  So that is not on the table for now.

 

Discord User 1: I would probably chalk up $100 to back a campaign for raising funds to manufacture real Amico controllers to be used on Amico Home. Just pack in a game or 2 with a controller and I would bite.

Maybe next year you can do it. That would be a nice option for everyone looking for the real Amico experience to have a real Amico controller to use with Amico Home.

 

Alvarado: Well, it is not out of the question.  The more support we hear for it, the more likely it could happen.  We'll see.   One problem is you have to manufacture in high volume to get the cost down.  We would have to set a pretty high funding goal, and I'm not sure we would get enough support.

I think it would have to wait until Amico Home grows a large enough user base.

 

Other random tidbits from Alvarado:

 

Yes, Finnigan Fox is on the list of games slated for Amico Home.  But it is a very large game that will take extra porting work.

 

Breakout is still a ways off.  We are trying to pick up where we left off on all the games that were in development to get them onto Amico Home.  Some developers don't have the bandwidth at the moment.  Breakout falls into that category, but we hope that will change at some point and we will eventually get Breakout published on Amico Home.  The games we have been able to publish on Amico Home and will publish soon are the ones that were completed and for which I have the source project so that I can do the porting work.

 

Just a clarification, the Amico Pilot units were manufactured, very expensively because of the low volume, but they were not assembled on a factory assembly line. We did the assembly by hand (putting the manufactured electronics inside the manufactured enclosures), and loaded the firmware using the same software tools for that that would be used on a factory assembly process.   So we've not mass produced anything yet, but we have manufactured hardware.

 

Manufacturing the Amico hardware controller for general sale depends on securing additional investment.  We hope that will happen soon so that we can start selling the controllers by summer of 2024 if all goes well.  Amico Home is an important step to attracting investors.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by livingonwheels

[MrBeefy]

22 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

I just got an "end of year update" email from them.  Looks like they're basically trying to get us to buy an Amazon tablet or Fire TV Stick now because --

 

"Intellivision is an Amazon affiliate partner. Using the above shopping links does not cost you any additional charges but Intellivision does get a small commission that helps us keep the dream alive."

 

 

 

 

So I guess the Amico didn't sign the DNR papers.

3 hours ago, MrTrust said:

But the games are shit, so who cares?  These were supposed to be pack-in games that you got free with your system, so you'd have something to do with it until you got your EWJ4, or Rigid Force Redux, or Finnegan Fox, or any of the eighty-five thousand games That Would Be Something that were Not Launch But Close.  Take the console out of the equation, and what are you left with?  The stupidest way of playing Astrosmash imaginable at an absurd price.

 

I've seen people buy a lot of gaming hardware that I think is pointless, and many reading this would say "look who's talking" since I bought not just one but two VCS, but at least everyone who bought the $40 Galaga handheld with 6 games on it from the Walgreens gets 6 good games to play, and it will work until the components fail.  People are going to pay $60 to play these four shovelware games and the apps are going to be deprecated in two years anyway.

 

That they are selling this to anyone for good money is tantamount to theft, in my view.

 

The market for this was always old guys who love an old name from a console that makes them think they aren't really boomers. They will buy any trash. This wasn't for families or kids. I've beat that drum for years, but because old guys feel young like a kid when you say Intellivision that makes them think kids were the target. 🤪

50 minutes ago, livingonwheels said:

From today's Amico Discord:

 

Discord user 1: Have you considered starting some sort of crowdfunding campaign for the manufacturing of just the controllers? I would think many of us would support such an endeavor especially if you pack in a game or two with the controller fundraising campaign.

 

Discord User #2: I'd be on board with this!

 

Alvarado: We have considered a crowdfunding campaign for controllers.  Unfortunately it would most likely be savaged and sunk by the very active group of detractors that sank our Start Engine campaign.  So that is not on the table for now.

 

Discord User 1: I would probably chalk up $100 to back a campaign for raising funds to manufacture real Amico controllers to be used on Amico Home. Just pack in a game or 2 with a controller and I would bite.

Maybe next year you can do it. That would be a nice option for everyone looking for the real Amico experience to have a real Amico controller to use with Amico Home.

 

Alvarado: Well, it is not out of the question.  The more support we hear for it, the more likely it could happen.  We'll see.   One problem is you have to manufacture in high volume to get the cost down.  We would have to set a pretty high funding goal, and I'm not sure we would get enough support.

I think it would have to wait until Amico Home grows a large enough user base.

 

Other random tidbits from Alvarado:

 

Yes, Finnigan Fox is on the list of games slated for Amico Home.  But it is a very large game that will take extra porting work.

 

Breakout is still a ways off.  We are trying to pick up where we left off on all the games that were in development to get them onto Amico Home.  Some developers don't have the bandwidth at the moment.  Breakout falls into that category, but we hope that will change at some point and we will eventually get Breakout published on Amico Home.  The games we have been able to publish on Amico Home and will publish soon are the ones that were completed and for which I have the source project so that I can do the porting work.

 

Just a clarification, the Amico Pilot units were manufactured, very expensively because of the low volume, but they were not assembled on a factory assembly line. We did the assembly by hand (putting the manufactured electronics inside the manufactured enclosures), and loaded the firmware using the same software tools for that that would be used on a factory assembly process.   So we've not mass produced anything yet, but we have manufactured hardware.

 

Manufacturing the Amico hardware controller for general sale depends on securing additional investment.  We hope that will happen soon so that we can start selling the controllers by summer of 2024 if all goes well.  Amico Home is an important step to attracting investors.

 

 

Speaking of for those who will just buy trash, there's a perfect example right there. The idiots have already dumped $100 into crowdfunding and have nothing to show for it.

 

I'd love to see Alvarado provide proof to back up his claims. Start Engine failed because those investors weren't as moronic as Republic ones. Them being forced to release their Financials helped with that. Plus ole Prarie Dog Slaughterer Nick was trying to not answer questions publicly but get private information. Which I'm sure was a big no no.

 

Seriously, those discord users are brainless. Let them give their money away. They have no one to blame but themselves.

 

Much like @Tommy Tallarico has no one to blame but himself for being a failure. I hope he sends Joey Kuras a nice fruit basket yearly as thanks for carrying him all those years.

 

Also Breakout isn't being finished. The devs said that themselves.

Edited December 20, 2023 by MrBeefy

[mr_me]

7 hours ago, MrTrust said:

...

But the games are shit, so who cares?  These were supposed to be pack-in games that you got free with your system, so you'd have something to do with it until you got your EWJ4, or Rigid Force Redux, or Finnegan Fox, or any of the eighty-five thousand games That Would Be Something that were Not Launch But Close.  Take the console out of the equation, and what are you left with?  The stupidest way of playing Astrosmash imaginable at an absurd price.

...

Always thought Finnigan Fox, being a one player game, and Rigid Force as well, didn't fit with the ultracasual, local multiplayer theme they were going for.  Amico Earthworm Jim was never going to be at near console release, at least a year or more after that.

 

5 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

No one was suggesting this. This is a ridiculous statement. What people said was to port games to consoles (switch, PA4, etc) to build a viable base for a console. NOT this insane set up involving multiple phones and fire sticks. C’mon man, to say that is straight up disingenuous.

Not disingenuous, Xbox/PS/Switch were the other platforms. Most TV streaming boxes weren't a viable platform back then, they are now.  They support standard game controllers but Amico games, as written, don't.  Amico games are installed like other apps.  Phones emulating game controllers aren't appropriate for action games but can work for party games or certain strategy games. Still think it's a workaround and not something to go to market with.

 

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

....

I'd love to see Alvarado provide proof to back up his claims. Start Engine failed because those investors weren't as moronic as Republic ones. Them being forced to release their Financials helped with that. Plus ole Prarie Dog Slaughterer Nick was trying to not answer questions publicly but get private information. Which I'm sure was a big no no.

...

Probably a lot of the same investors on both Republic and Startengine.  They'd already made their investment.

Edited December 20, 2023 by mr_me

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

No one was suggesting this. This is a ridiculous statement. What people said was to port games to consoles (switch, PA4, etc) to build a viable base for a console. NOT this insane set up involving multiple phones and fire sticks. C’mon man, to say that is straight up disingenuous.

I think mr_me was partially referring to something I said so I will clarify. My point was releasing a new console was too risky and not that relevant since the system in itself has nothing special (except LEDs but...). Since they were claiming the controllers were so cool and unique™️, my point was releasing Amico as an app indeed, for other consoles but also PC, phones, and tablets, but using Amico controllers. So basically, you only buy a controller (which is way cheaper than a new console), that could unlock the 6 pack-in games for free. Of course you would be able to sync multiple controllers to the app.

 

I don't think it would have been successful mind you, especially now that it's obvious the controller doesn't make the games that much better, but I never suggested playing with phones, for starters, and obviously I would have never envisioned such a convoluted setup that require multiple phones.

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I think mr_me was partially referring to something I said so I will clarify. My point was releasing a new console was too risky and not that relevant since the system in itself has nothing special (except LEDs but...). Since they were claiming the controllers were so cool and unique™️, my point was releasing Amico as an app indeed, for other consoles but also PC, phones, and tablets, but using Amico controllers. So basically, you only buy a controller (which is way cheaper than a new console), that could unlock the 6 pack-in games for free. Of course you would be able to sync multiple controllers to the app.

 

I don't think it would have been successful mind you, especially now that it's obvious the controller doesn't make the games that much better, but I never suggested playing with phones, for starters, and obviously I would have never envisioned such a convoluted setup that require multiple phones.

What, you don't want to play with the Grandpa Brown controller skin?

The controllers were the worst part about this whole debacle. People forgot the WiiU existed and there was ZERO things shown by IE that really suggested the screen was needed. Games like Jackbox had already found a way to circumvent needing a touchscreen on a controller. It's a NES controller with no tactile buttons with an analog stick that's been cut off. People need to stop wishcasting on that POS controller that continuously dropped connection and had crap battery. Oh and LAG.