News article possible end of VCS

[leech]

3 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I was meaning just the original Atari IP but yeah, they do have some of those Infogrames IPs left but did sell off others. I never thought of it as Atari so never paid much attention to it. 

 

RollerCoaster Tycoon is definitely their biggest one that they still have around but apparently I'm dumb for suggesting that they should have leveraged that to provide software value to the VCS. 

Never have played RollerCoaster Tycoon. 

 

I maintain they should get a proper Star Raiders built.  Make something huge like Elite...

[Bill Loguidice]

10 minutes ago, leech said:

I maintain they should get a proper Star Raiders built.  Make something huge like Elite...

It's certainly a good name even now, but considering the millions invested into games like Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, and Star Citizen and their big-time success, I'm not sure there's room for another Elite-style game in the market where they'd guarantee to recoup the costs. Probably the most cost-effective route would be just to do a recharged variation of the original, which wouldn't be a bad thing and certainly different enough from those open world games to find a decent audience.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

3 minutes ago, leech said:

Never have played RollerCoaster Tycoon. 

 

I maintain they should get a proper Star Raiders built.  Make something huge like Elite...

I haven't either, closest I've got was Theme Park, but the point is more that when you have anything of value and you have a hardware platform, you should leverage every bit of it to make your platform as successful as possible. Doesn't mean it'll be the next Switch or whatever but it's just what you do when you're marketing a game platform that cost your millions of dollars to develop & produce. RCT, as far as I've seen, is the one IP that still can generate a lot of money for Atari, more than any of the ancient IP, so in my opinion they should have had a VCS exclusive of something from the series, right from launch. No it wouldn't appeal to a lot of people here at AA but it would appeal to the more casual buyer that they needed to buy the thing. 

 

I love Star Raiders too; Always heard that the 2013 game was trash, which is sad. Perhaps Digital Eclipse should take a crack at it. I did get Atari 50th on Switch and I do have to say - Haunted Houses is exactly the kind of thing that I think Atari should have been doing when they want to refresh old IP. It's different and it's a lot of fun, expands on the original idea while maintaining the spirit. It's only a little short but the randomness of each try makes up for it(ok and I hate those bugs when you're using anything but the torch). Vctr Sctr is pretty cool too. If the VCS had exclusives like those on the platform, then I'd have much less to criticize

[Bill Loguidice]

7 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I love Star Raiders too; Always heard that the 2013 game was trash, which is sad. Perhaps Digital Eclipse should take a crack at it. I did get Atari 50th on Switch and I do have to say - Haunted Houses is exactly the kind of thing that I think Atari should have been doing when they want to refresh old IP. It's different and it's a lot of fun, expands on the original idea while maintaining the spirit. It's only a little short but the randomness of each try makes up for it(ok and I hate those bugs when you're using anything but the torch). Vctr Sctr is pretty cool too. If the VCS had exclusives like those on the platform, then I'd have much less to criticize

That's another catch-22 for a company like Atari. If they made true VCS exclusives of all of their published titles for example, they'd still never make back the investment if their user base is indeed under 20k, which it almost certainly is, and exclusives for games they publish likely wouldn't move the needle too far above that. As others have stated, with common development tools, it's easy enough to create a single game targeted to multiple platforms, so Atari would be doing more harm to their company than good by artificially restricting the platforms their games can appear on, particularly since those other consoles can sell more in a single day than the VCS can sell over its lifetime. Of course, with all of that in mind, that goes back to the original question of what was the point of developing and releasing the VCS in the first place. Hopefully it at least gave them as a company a little more gravitas in the market than they otherwise would have had just doing game publishing and merchandise licensing deals.

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

Switch hardware is kind of crap

No it's not. It's not the most powerful hardware in existence, obviously, but for its price, size, and battery, it's very competent. Actually there haven't been many handhelds that powerful compared to the home systems of its generation except the Vita, maybe. It's more powerful than the Xbox 360, the PS3, and the Wii U, dammit. And it's a handheld. 😩

[Shaggy the Atarian]

7 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's another catch-22 for a company like Atari. If they made true VCS exclusives of all of their published titles for example, they'd still never make back the investment if their user base is indeed under 20k, which it almost certainly is, and exclusives for games they publish likely wouldn't move the needle too far above that. As others have stated, with common development tools, it's easy enough to create a single game targeted to multiple platforms, so Atari would be doing more harm to their company than good by artificially restricting the platforms their games can appear on, particularly since those other consoles can sell more in a single day than the VCS can sell over its lifetime. Of course, with all of that in mind, that goes back to the original question of what was the point of developing and releasing the VCS in the first place. Hopefully it at least gave them as a company a little more gravitas in the market than they otherwise would have had just doing game publishing and merchandise licensing deals.

Yep agree 100% - If you're going to invest millions of dollars into hardware then exclusive games have to be a part of that equation from the start, unless you've got some other goal in mind. If you can't do that then you shouldn't do it at all. Now Atari's back to losing money and hoping that NFTs will save them. Will VCS fans say it was worth it if this console does what the Jaguar did and sinks the company permanently?

 

(There's also the thing about Fred C. trying every which way he could think of to inflate the value of the brand and the VCS being a part of that, but anyways)

 

 

 

[leech]

32 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's another catch-22 for a company like Atari. If they made true VCS exclusives of all of their published titles for example, they'd still never make back the investment if their user base is indeed under 20k, which it almost certainly is, and exclusives for games they publish likely wouldn't move the needle too far above that. As others have stated, with common development tools, it's easy enough to create a single game targeted to multiple platforms, so Atari would be doing more harm to their company than good by artificially restricting the platforms their games can appear on, particularly since those other consoles can sell more in a single day than the VCS can sell over its lifetime. Of course, with all of that in mind, that goes back to the original question of what was the point of developing and releasing the VCS in the first place. Hopefully it at least gave them as a company a little more gravitas in the market than they otherwise would have had just doing game publishing and merchandise licensing deals.

An alternate to VCS exclusive would be Steam Deck / Linux exclusive.  The Steam Deck is selling really well.  I am sure some just put Windows on it, but I bet the majority leave the default.  Selling their games for the Deck and the VCS (both require a linux port or Proton) would be pretty close to 'exclusive' and could promote the VCS, witbout limiting games to 20k~ sales.

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, leech said:

An alternate to VCS exclusive would be Steam Deck / Linux exclusive.  The Steam Deck is selling really well.  I am sure some just put Windows on it, but I bet the majority leave the default.  Selling their games for the Deck and the VCS (both require a linux port or Proton) would be pretty close to 'exclusive' and could promote the VCS, witbout limiting games to 20k~ sales.

I love the Steam Deck, but as far as I know, there's no mechanism for exclusives, nor would there be any particular reason to do so. General Steam is a far larger market than the Steam Deck, so you may as well just make regular PC versions like usual and forget the exclusive part. In any case, if you're an Atari, you want to go Steam, Switch, Xbox, and PlayStation to cover all the bases. Again, it's a question of creating artificial exclusivity. There's just no benefit unless you're one of the big three and can eat some losses as exclusives eventually drive more people to your platform.

[leech]

39 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

No it's not. It's not the most powerful hardware in existence, obviously, but for its price, size, and battery, it's very competent. Actually there haven't been many handhelds that powerful compared to the home systems of its generation except the Vita, maybe. It's more powerful than the Xbox 360, the PS3, and the Wii U, dammit. And it's a handheld. 😩

Huh, I would not say it is more powerful than the PS3 / Xbox 360.  The Switch is based on old hardware.  the Tegra X1 released in 2015.

Any of the games I have seen compared between the PS3 and my Switch, it sure seems like the graphic capability of the PS3 is better.  Both are about as capable as far as playing games in 1080p.

[leech]

18 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I love the Steam Deck, but as far as I know, there's no mechanism for exclusives, nor would there be any particular reason to do so. General Steam is a far larger market than the Steam Deck, so you may as well just make regular PC versions like usual and forget the exclusive part. In any case, if you're an Atari, you want to go Steam, Switch, Xbox, and PlayStation to cover all the bases. Again, it's a question of creating artificial exclusivity. There's just no benefit unless you're one of the big three and can eat some losses as exclusives eventually drive more people to your platform.

By 'exclusives' I meant Linux only releases.  So you could play on the Deck or Linux desktop, but make sure they are Deck Verified.

 

But yeah, exclusives are basically dumb and pointless at this point as every platform (except the switch) is basically x86 hardware with different operating systems.  If everyone would standardize on Vulkan (looking at you, Apple) then 'platform' would be something that doesn't matter, and people would pick based on performance/peripherals.

 

The ONE thing the VCS really has going for it is their Classic joystick.

[Bill Loguidice]

2 hours ago, leech said:

The ONE thing the VCS really has going for it is their Classic joystick.

Yes, it's definitely the one semi-exclusive feature, regardless of whether the quality is polarizing or not. It's a shame there couldn't have been a few more clever thoughts like that to make the platform a bit more distinctive.

[leech]

5 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Yes, it's definitely the one semi-exclusive feature, regardless of whether the quality is polarizing or not. It's a shame there couldn't have been a few more clever thoughts like that to make the platform a bit more distinctive.

Ha, the motherboard is cool.  The case, overall packaging, etc.  Contrary to all the naysayers, it is more than a Raspberry Pi running Android.  It is a no-DRM platform, etc.  I think 'we want exclusives!' Is the incorrect way to look at it.  We would need a VCS 2 or 3, with a MUCH larger user base to get any exclusive games.

 

I do think Atari should try and work with Activision, or in some cases, new rights holders for classic games to get more 'recharged' games made.

 

Good example would be Rogue, by Epyx.  The DOS version (f'ugly) is on Steam.  Get the ST port working on the VCS with some keyboard / joystick translation layer somehow and that would pull in some cash.  Or other Epyx titles too! 

 

There is a massive amount of small indie games that would work so well on the system, and most are already ported to Linux.  Dead Cells is an excellent example.

[Bill Loguidice]

31 minutes ago, leech said:

Ha, the motherboard is cool.  The case, overall packaging, etc.  Contrary to all the naysayers, it is more than a Raspberry Pi running Android.  It is a no-DRM platform, etc.  I think 'we want exclusives!' Is the incorrect way to look at it.  We would need a VCS 2 or 3, with a MUCH larger user base to get any exclusive games.

 

I do think Atari should try and work with Activision, or in some cases, new rights holders for classic games to get more 'recharged' games made.

 

Good example would be Rogue, by Epyx.  The DOS version (f'ugly) is on Steam.  Get the ST port working on the VCS with some keyboard / joystick translation layer somehow and that would pull in some cash.  Or other Epyx titles too! 

What remains of the Epyx library is licensed out to companies already, including Blaze with their Evercade platform. Having worked in that area for a number of years, I can say that licensing some things - even very old things - can either be overly complicated or overly expensive, the latter of which Atari really can't handle at this stage. Of course, licensing individual titles, if an option, would be cheaper, but again, the returns probably wouldn't be there.

 

Quote

There is a massive amount of small indie games that would work so well on the system, and most are already ported to Linux.  Dead Cells is an excellent example.

That's all well and good, of course, but I don't see how it moves the needle much to help the platform. Most people interested in gaming have at least equivalent PCs to what the VCS offers power-wise (or something like the Steam Deck) and certainly the big three have indie content in spades, so it's not like this stuff isn't already easy to access. In any case, I suspect if Atari were really interested in that type of plan, they would have implemented it before release. It certainly would have been a good idea to beef up the VCS store with that type of content early on, but there must have been some combination of lack of interest or lack of resources preventing that. At this stage, especially, I just don't see Atari putting ANY more effort into the platform. The window has passed and they're not in a solid enough financial position even if the will was still there.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Bill Loguidice

[Flojomojo]

Not my favorite messenger, but the analysis is spot on. We don't need another necro brand console with no software or support. 

 

[Mockduck]

Ancient Art of War in the Skies is available on the VCS. If you are into the series you will like it.

[T.A.P.]

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

Not my favorite messenger, but the analysis is spot on. We don't need another necro brand console with no software or support. 

 

I've never seen the guy before, but he just seems like a smug condescending jerk.

[Atarick]

4 hours ago, T.A.P. said:

I've never seen the guy before, but he just seems like a smug condescending jerk.

One of my least favorite YouTubers. His videos are the shart of meaningful analysis. There is quite possibly no one whose "take" I value less than him. 

[roots.genoa]

At least he has the perfect voice (and face) to work on the radio. 🙂

[THX-1138]

6 hours ago, T.A.P. said:

I've never seen the guy before, but he just seems like a smug condescending jerk.

I managed to watch a whole 20 seconds of that plonker before realising I value my own time too much to continue.  I get that the VCS isn't something that appeals to everyone, or for some people being an Atari fan is limited to a specific era in time or keeping old systems and games going, I get all that.   But ffs if it doesn't appeal, move on instead of whining and moaning like a spoilt child.  It was tedious when I was a kid with people getting worked up over whether the Sinclair or Commodore was best, or the ST vs Amiga thing, or the PC vs Mac thing, or the Windows vs Linux thing etc.  Jesus, life is too frickin short, if something works for you then fine, if not, move on.

Edited December 28, 2022 by THX-1138

[Bill Loguidice]

9 hours ago, Mockduck said:

Ancient Art of War in the Skies is available on the VCS. If you are into the series you will like it.

I have the original boxed. In what way is it available on the VCS?

[leech]

3 hours ago, THX-1138 said:

I managed to watch a whole 20 seconds of that plonker before realising I value my own time too much to continue.  I get that the VCS isn't something that appeals to everyone, or for some people being an Atari fan is limited to a specific era in time or keeping old systems and games going, I get all that.   But ffs if it doesn't appeal, move on instead of whining and moaning like a spoilt child.  It was tedious when I was a kid with people getting worked up over whether the Sinclair or Commodore was best, or the ST vs Amiga thing, or the PC vs Mac thing, or the Windows vs Linux thing etc.  Jesus, life is too frickin short, if something works for you then fine, if not, move on.

The crap thing in my mind is we almost always end up with two viable choices.  The only reason Nintendo is still relevant as a hardware maker is because they have been forced to be innovative, coming out with a portable/dockable solution.   But they also use the strategy of not chasing the latest graphics.  If they had just created a normal console after the Gamecube, they would be in the same state as Sega, licensing software for others.

Even as massive as Nokia was, their massiveness slowed down their effort to release an iPhone competitor fast enough so lost all their developers to Android / iOS.

 

Let's face it, humans tend to think in opposing terms.  Black/white, good/evil, Sony/Microsoft, etc.  Atari/Colecovision, Sega/Nintendo... we go through phases.

 

But at the end of the day, if people like their toys and are satisfied with them, then that is fine.  I also understand people trying to defend their choice.  But in some cases, it is like an abusive relationship.

 

Like how I chose a Samsung Z Fold 4 for my phone, but after the awesomeness of having a little tablet in your pocket wears off, you start to notice annoying things, like that the ratios of the outer screen and the inner screen can sometimes cause apps to not know what the hell is going on.

 

This same thing can be applied to some kickstartersthat people have defended backing... and then wither they don't deliver, or are so late for it not to matter.

 

But I find it odd for some who have never bought a VCS to want it to die so badly.  Did Fred fly to your house and shit in your cheerios?  Dude is no longer there and they are honestly trying to get games out.  The VCS was always just going to be a platform for Antstream and Tempest.

[Mockduck]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I have the original boxed. In what way is it available on the VCS?

You can purchase it from the VCS Store and play it. It's the same version as the one available on Steam and Gog.

[THX-1138]

1 hour ago, leech said:

But I find it odd for some who have never bought a VCS to want it to die so badly.  Did Fred fly to your house and shit in your cheerios?  Dude is no longer there and they are honestly trying to get games out.  The VCS was always just going to be a platform for Antstream and Tempest.

That made me laugh out loud, great. 
 

Yeah, it was always a niche proposition, honestly that never bothered me - I have wanted another Atari computer since the ST days ended and that's what I've got.  A nicely designed mini PC that runs my favourite OS (Linux) and the VCS gaming aspect is just gravy on top that has already exceeded what I expected.

[joeatari1]

13 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Not my favorite messenger, but the analysis is spot on. We don't need another necro brand console with no software or support. 

 

Funny thing though, there IS software and support.  Maybe not in the quantity that YOU deem important, but it's there and more is coming.  They are slowly filling in gaps in the library and support has been personal and very well received in most cases.

 

2 hours ago, leech said:

But I find it odd for some who have never bought a VCS to want it to die so badly.  Did Fred fly to your house and shit in your cheerios?  Dude is no longer there and they are honestly trying to get games out.

Love that line right there!🤣

[MegaManFan]

I've seen enough of Rich (ReviewTechUSA) to have actually made a YTP having a little fun with his obsession with chicken noises. I gradually stopped watching him though after he rage quit YouTube multiple times, which of course means he came back multiple times, the last time being with TheActMan got demonitized (OT not going into it). It's not really about his abrasive personality though. Some people feel the same way about James Stephanie Sterling too. I try to just think "Do they have a point?" And while yes, I am enjoying my VCS, I think it does fall into the "another retro product that doesn't need to exist" category. And I own a lot of said products too. The C64 Mini doesn't need to exist. The PlayStation Mini doesn't either. There are arguably better ways to experience the same games, and better preservation OF those games, for lesser money than those devices cost. The VCS is no exception. I don't argue against owning one, but I probably wouldn't have bought one if they hadn't put it on sale either.