JagCF last news before the before the launch of final proto.

[Greenious]

Playing around with the Jagur is not seriously wanting to write serious games.

Who knows what they will do. The key issue is that we get more people developing.

 

The CF is no longer the Jaguar anyway. It's the Jaguar playing HOST to a new console using a new chip with NO tools.

So? Semantics? Who cares? Has this somehow evolved from "stop piracy" to "stop the future"?

 

Yes, part of the problem for scumbags that feel it is ok to steal my hard work. You clearly have not writting for a system a difficult as the Jaguar, if for any system at all.

Well, never said it was ok to steal your work.

 

All I've been doing is pointing out how the fear of piracy that is prevalent in the jaguar scene pretty much is responsible for the pathetic size of the scene. Actually the scene doesn't deserve being called that. It's more of a private club really. With a steep admission. If you can find a ticket.

 

A no, I haven't been writing for the jaguar. I tried some years back, but at that time it turned out to be damn near impossible to get the needed stuff to start out. How many others that gave up developing for the jaguar for the same reason I don't know.

 

Too bad yu can't comprehend simple things......you are asking us, 3DSSS to put our money

and time on the line like it is no big deal, nothing involded in the effort of producing a game.

I truly wont miss clowns like you as the door hits my ass.

And I won't miss conservative fools like you either.

[Greenious]

Has anyone else noticed that by a large margin the people supporting the CF seem completely obsessed with justifying piracy or condemning developers for having an anti-piracy stance?

No, but I have noticed how one way of utilizing the JagCF has been completely blown out of proportion and how the succesful anti-piracy stance the jaguar community has been able to keep since Atari took a dive off the cliff has given us... nothing.

 

No cheaper games, for some games quite the opposite.

A small & dwindling private club not worth being called "a scene"

No new developers. Like a private club it has the same patrons today as it did 5 years ago.

Projects killed due to fear of the pirate.

 

It's pathetic. I do not justify piracy, but if you want to log in here a few years down the line, and see different patrons than just the usual schmucks that enjoy their backpatting in their private little club, you better start supporting the efforts being done by the JagCF team.

 

Not only will we get a sweet piece of hardware that adds functionality to the jag, but a decent development tool and distribution tool for all those small little games & demos.

 

Sure, it can be used for other things aswell, but personally I don't think that is going to be a huge problem, and instead we will get a bigger fanbase, a bigger customerbase and a lot more activity that will compensate the "piracy" more than enough.

[Pocket]

(Bill_Loguidice @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:21 AM)

Yeah, I have to agree with that too. I know of no other platform, including Atari platforms, that have put up such a fuss over the possibility - the user option side effect if you will - of playing ROMs on the system.

 

Dreamcast community.

 

Just FYI on that one.

 

It's a semi sore spot.

 

The indy community understands that cracking the system to play games off of CD-Rs was necessary to even have an indy scene (due to DC using proprietary GD-ROMs for games), but the whole burning commercially released games onto CD-R thing, which was in fact part of the reason Dreamcast was killed off by Sega (they needed every last red cent off of software sales they could muster, and piracy made that impossible)

 

Sorry that's wrong, see the last post of this page : http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...5559&st=125

 

What? This?

 

Piracy never killed the DC. Software sales were excellent in US & Europe (Japan gamers don't pirate that much). Even when Sega canned the DC and when Big Ben took the distribution in Europe, they were surprised by the excellent sales : 2x more they were expecting for most titles. Without these performances, we would not have seen the last titles released.

 

If you want the real reason, I suggest you to have a look at the top head of the company : who died, and who had the power next. And a serious look at last DCs Christmas sales vs PS2 (hardware).

 

 

Nope. Sorry, I'm right.

 

http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-index.php...aBase+Dreamcast

 

Specifically:

 

http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-index.php...se+Dreamcast+p6

 

Read and learn.

 

Software sales were not good. That's why 3rd parties started pulling out. And a big part of that was due to the ease of piracy.

 

All one needed to do was put in a CD-R. Didn't even need to mod the console. Nothing easier than that.

 

There was a drastic drop in software sales in the US specifically, DC's strongest market, from the '99 launch to early spring '00 when the pirates struck and made it so easy. Software sales weren't mindblowing for 3rd parties to begin with compared to Sega's own games, but the piracy just made it worse for all.

 

And what about DC sales vs. PS2 sales during that last holiday season (Holiday 2000, before the Jan. 2001 announcement that they were pulling the plug)?

 

They outsold PS2 that holiday. PS2 was suffering shortages. Sega's sales went up almost 200% from months earlier. You do know that, don't you?

 

They missed their projections, of course, by about 1/3, iirc. But they killed it off in spite of those sales gains. The software wasn't selling, the CEO you wrote of had made it known it was to be Sega's last console (way to instill confidence in 3rd parties and consumers >_>), and the biggest reason was that Sega didn't have the financial strength to keep up the fight due to the massive debt they suffered due to their own incompetence during the early Saturn days.

 

But piracy was a part of why DC was killed off. I never stated it was the only reason. Just a part.

 

Spiffyone, I didn't talk about the holliday season, but the Christmas season. I know that DC sales were very good before that.

And what makes me so confident about what I'm saying, is that I worked 7 years for videogames magazines in France : when the DC was killed by Sega, I was in direct contact with key people at Sega, and then, Big Ben. I know it directly from them, I don't need to read articles on Internet to learn something, sorry

 

(before christmas season, third parties didn't really started pulling out, more than 150 games were planned for the next year)

[Pocket]

Software sales were not good. That's why 3rd parties started pulling out. And a big part of that was due to the ease of piracy.

(...)

But piracy was a part of why DC was killed off. I never stated it was the only reason. Just a part.

 

This was partially confirmed by conversations with the DC Homebrew community by VPs at SoA before the plug was completely pulled, btw. Piracy was a definate factor. There was no way to correct the issue with the huge number of units already in the market - sure, they could release a new console that locked out CDRs[...]

 

They could since the begining, one new model was ready less than one year after DC launch.

[Pocket]

Personally, I do not mind losing you as a developer, if the JagCF brings in even only 2 other developers, but from what I've heard, there's quite a few people interested in playing around with the jaguar.

 

 

Playing around with the Jagur is not seriously wanting to write serious games. The CF

is no longer the Jaguar anyway. It's the Jaguar playing HOST to a new console

using a new chip with NO tools.

 

 

Wrong. The JagCF can be used alone OR combined with Jaguar stock power. You have the choice. This has been said hundred times. Repeating the same thing again and again won't make it true.

 

About tools, the fact you doesn't have them doesn't mean they don't exist

[Gorf]

No cheaper games, for some games quite the opposite.

 

 

Gorf was $34.95. MOst CD tites on the Jag are twice and more.

Again, b&m all you want, Im notrunning down this hall with a

pair of sissors.

[Starcat]

In case my previous post sounded different, I'm not supporting piracy, but I don't see it as a danger on the Jag either.

 

Personally I only buy games that I know are my taste. I play them before buying them. On other systems there are demos that help with this or places where you can rent games to check them out. For Jag Games that's another reason I like JagFests so much. However after testing a game I really like I buy it. I know many people who do the same, with pirated software. After trying a game they like, they buy it.

 

Certainly there may also be people who don't do this, but I think every collector will do it for sure and in the case of the Jaguar all die hard Jag fans will do it to.

 

So again, I'm not supporting piracy, I just don't think the possibility of loading roms would be a valid reason to attack JagCF, as there are deviced around that can do it for many years at affordable price and it never became a problem in the Jag scene.

 

For commercial systems piracy is a different topic of course, as many people probably copy games and don't care enough for the system, the community or the game to buy it. I don't think this is true for the Jaguar though. It would be a pity if it was that way.

 

Also I wouldn't call JagCF a new console... It's a DSP, some RAM to buffer data that you load of CF and UART. It doesn't have video hardware, sound hardware and isn't a new architecture to begin with. I don't think it can be compared with 32x for example.

 

Actually to me it is a lot more like a Super FX cartridge on SNES, i.e. a cart with more ram and a dsp. Just that you can exchange the game content and you are not bound to put the new hardware into each cartridge.

 

Regards, Lars.

[spiffyone]

Spiffyone, I didn't talk about the holliday season, but the Christmas season. I know that DC sales were very good before that.

 

Just a clue here:

 

Holiday season is "Christmas season". Or, rather "Christmas season" is a part of the holiday shopping season.

 

Traditionally in the US it runs from right after Thanksgiving to after Christmas. In other nations it also starts before December and runs through that month.

 

And what makes me so confident about what I'm saying, is that I worked 7 years for videogames magazines in France : when the DC was killed by Sega, I was in direct contact with key people at Sega, and then, Big Ben. I know it directly from them, I don't need to read articles on Internet to learn something, sorry

 

It looks like you do.

 

The guy who wrote them was also in constant contact with people at Sega, and culled massive amounts of research both online and off when writing those products.

 

Furthermore, another poster confirmed exactly what I wrote, which was confirmed by SoA executives at the time.

 

Piracy wasn't THE reason DC was killed off, but it was a part, a significant part, of why the console itself failed in many ways to pull in a significant profit for Sega.

 

(before christmas season, third parties didn't really started pulling out, more than 150 games were planned for the next year)

 

You can look that up on IGN, Gamespot, and other sites, including mainstream press.

 

Listen, it's nice that you wrote for 7 years in France. But you aren't writing for the majors, because you aren't in Japan or the US or the UK, which are the major markets for video games (UK being the largest in Europe). And the 3rd party exodus began when PS2 launched in Japan and shortly after launch there sold more than DC had sold up to that point.

[spiffyone]

They could since the begining, one new model was ready less than one year after DC launch.

 

After DC launch where, exactly?

 

It launched late '98 in Japan. One year later in the US/NA market, a month or so after that in EU/PAL markets.

 

If you mean less than a year after the US/NA launch (mid 2000), by then there were already about 4-5 or so million of the things on the market worldwide. And a couple of million on shelves that were made before the hardware revision.

 

4-5 or so million consoles that weren't protected at all and could boot pirated games on a simple CD-R without modification.

 

And, btw, the only DC units that were made without MIL-CD support (which allowed CD-Rs with game data to run without console modification) were revision 2 units, and those were manufactured after Oct. 2000. However, these are still able to read CD-Rs, just not those with audio/data. It has to be data/data.

 

ALL DC units can run CD-Rs, including pirated legit games. And, yes, ironically one of the major things that hurt the DC homebrew/indy scene is the very thing that gave it life: ease of running CD-Rs with game data on the console. This has led to indy/homebrew releases being pirated, and has led to some people who have rare unreleased prototypes, and who have sweated developing for that console, to abandon it or try to take more preventative measures.

 

And, no, 2600 is not the scene with the easiest way to pirate. To pirate on 2600 you need to buy a product to do so. Not so with Dreamcast. All one needs is knowledge of how to burn a CD-R. After that it's as easy as putting the disc in the console and playing.

 

Again, piracy is not THE only reason why Sega killed Dreamcast (the major reason is their own bad financial situation stemming from silly decisions in the early Saturn days), but piracy is one of the reasons, and a significant one, that helped cause Dreamcast's demise.

[spiffyone]

However after testing a game I really like I buy it. I know many people who do the same, with pirated software. After trying a game they like, they buy it.

 

Certainly there may also be people who don't do this, but I think every collector will do it for sure and in the case of the Jaguar all die hard Jag fans will do it to.

 

Again, Lars, the try before you buy argument doesn't hold water.

 

The most significant portion of people who pirate products do not turn around and purchase the legit product. To most, they already have the product. Sure, there are SOME who will turn around and buy the legit product, but logic dictates that that amount is very small.

 

And that's because we're not talking demos here. I'm sure Gorf wouldn't argue against demos. I sure as heck wouldn't. But this is FULL games. The try before you buy thing simply doesn't hold water, and is no assurance to producers who are hoping for the best possible returns on their products. For a homebrew/indy scene like Jags, very small though it is, producers still want to get as much as possible out of the sales of their products. Piracy lowers that possible amount. There's no argument.

 

So again, I'm not supporting piracy, I just don't think the possibility of loading roms would be a valid reason to attack JagCF, as there are deviced around that can do it for many years at affordable price and it never became a problem in the Jag scene.

 

There's a big difference:

 

The ease of use for those products is not as easy as it could be for JagCF, by design. One need only download an image to a compact Flash card. That's very, very, very easy.

 

Again, I'm not overtly picking sides here. The older roms are, again, iffy, because even this site has them for download, and one could argue that due to them no longer being manufactured they're fair game (and for all I know Atari released it just as they did Jag to the public domain). But the new games that will come have to be protected. If they can be, then great. If not....

 

For commercial systems piracy is a different topic of course, as many people probably copy games and don't care enough for the system, the community or the game to buy it. I don't think this is true for the Jaguar though. It would be a pity if it was that way.

 

You are trusting people to be good.

 

That's too trusting, IMHO.

 

You have to protect yourself as well, Lars. I'm looking forward to Eerievale on DC. But I tell you now: get orders first, as much as you need to break even or as much as you can to lessen the investment blow. Because if you ship one unit without getting all the orders that you possibly can and shipping them at the same time or near the same time (or having a no refund once they start shipping policy), you will see Eerievale for DC images, the full game, floating around on the download sites. And if protection on some level for JagCF games isn't assured, same deal.

 

Also I wouldn't call JagCF a new console... It's a DSP, some RAM to buffer data that you load of CF and UART. It doesn't have video hardware, sound hardware and isn't a new architecture to begin with. I don't think it can be compared with 32x for example.

 

I wouldn't call it a new console either. It's an add-on. Just like 32x was. But my issue is with how much power it adds. It might be too much. But that's a philosophical difference. If great games are made using the DSP, then I'll get my hands on a JagCF. If new games are available on a purchase for download model, I'm there. If older games, like, say, Battlesphere were ever made available for a purchased download, I would definitely be al over JagCF (because I ain't paying over $80 or so for any game, even Jag's own Jesus Game a.k.a Battlesphere).

 

Actually to me it is a lot more like a Super FX cartridge on SNES, i.e. a cart with more ram and a dsp. Just that you can exchange the game content and you are not bound to put the new hardware into each cartridge.

 

In a way it's very much like that. My issue is that SuperFX added reasonable power to the SNES that was reasonable at that time. And I know JagCF is being made now, but I still have this overly romantic ideal of developments for older "dead" consoles being made as if they were made at the time that those older "dead" consoles were new and "alive". Now, I know the CF part wouldn't have been there in the mid '90s (compact flash cards being a relatively new thing in the mass market), but the DSP and RAM should, IMHO, be developed as if they were being developed in the mid '90s (so they'd have to be reasonable for that time). But that's philosophy. If good games are made with the extra DSP and RAM, I'll be too busy playing the games to complain.

[Fadest]

I think you didn't understand what Fadest said : he said that he choosed to develop full games and give the hard work of his team for free to everyone, so he's not the best person to talk about people who choose to sell their games.

 

 

I completely understood it. And maybe I value my time and efforts more than he does.

Nice to see you seem to appreciate our work .

Yes, like every homebrew developper, we think our work is unvaluable.

My biggest reward was the shiny eyes of my 8 years son, trying the games of his father.

Then came the decision of making money or not, no amount of money could reward us from our hard work our commitment, and the hard moments we had. We did not put our games in freeware for silly reasons, like we thought they couldn't compete with official release (on the contrary, at least Space Lock or Space Shoot could, in my opinion), but this was a way to thanks fan for their support to the Lynx.

 

You know, in my opinion, money never was a good indicator to value the merit of someone. Hey, I told you I was not the good person to speak about this

Edited October 1, 2007 by Fadest

[thomasholzer]

Spiffyone, I didn't talk about the holliday season, but the Christmas season. I know that DC sales were very good before that.

 

Just a clue here:

 

Holiday season is "Christmas season". Or, rather "Christmas season" is a part of the holiday shopping season.

 

 

Yes, but you guys being American, you got it the wrong way around again: Holiday in UK means 'vacation', nothing to do with 'holy days' (check Wiki), which are Bank Holidays in UK. So Pocket might have picked up on that, thinking you were talking about the vacation season, perhaps the summer vacation (meaning little sales due to people in Europe need money to 'spend their holidays' (vacation) in Spain (or France)).

 

English lesson part 1 for USA'ers: vacation = holiday, sidewalk = pavement, lift = elevator, trunk = boot, dust bin = wastebasket, knickers = panties....I could go on....

Edited October 1, 2007 by thomasholzer

[Gorf]

Anyway, if you are doing this for the money, you are definately part of the problem, if you are doing this for fun.... well... what is your beef? Really?

 

Yes, part of the problem for scumbags that feel it is ok to steal my hard work. You clearly

have not writting for a system a difficult as the Jaguar, if for any system at all.

did you ever saw the pokemon mini stuff ? that machine had an unknown processor, with unknown opcode, unknow hardware, no hardware doc at all, and homebrew developer succeed in reverse engineering the processor opcode and writing new assembler and debugger and emulator and flash cart and games and so on... and all of this, FOR FREE

coding on jaguar is not that difficult at all, I did a little game in only one week, ok it was mainly 68k, but some weeks later I had a game entirely written with the gpu/dsp and 68k turned off (and don't talk again of the gpu in ram stuff, players simply don't care, they only care about the final result that the game is)

 

 

I posted proof at least...were is yours? Ignoring experience is stupid. But, be my guest. Most players WILL

appreciate main code when the se the CELAR difference in performance.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Gorf

[Tursi]

{mutters} I've never even HEARD of Soul Star....

[Pocket]

Spiffyone, I'll try to make it short, because we are off topic here

 

- Yes sorry, for me holliday season isn't christmas time, I think it's a difference of language.

 

- I didn't wrote for "majors" being in France ok, but when you're in contact with SoE, does it matter ?

Many people on Internet are going too far explaining pirating was a big part of DC fall, wich isn't the case.

+150 games were still in dev, and many more were unannounced at Sega, Ubi Soft, etc. When Isao Okawa died and when he gave nearly one billion from is own pockets, to give Sega a new start, this move changed everything at Segas headquarters...

 

- Less than one year after japan launch, at Sega's office. But they did not launch it.

[thomasholzer]

{mutters} I've never even HEARD of Soul Star....

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soulstar

[Gorf]

Making pirate copies of other developpers work? Nah, only JagCF developpers and supporters would do that.

http://jaysmith2000.ipbhost.com/index.php?...st&p=178174

 

 

How am I a hypocrite for trying to stop someone from copying a game I had to pull off the market?

I think I did the right thing. I made my mistake and corrected it. My mistake was an honest one for

anyone objective...but Fredrik/Deranged/Jag4House or whoeevryou really are, you are the hypocrite

becasue you actually condone such bullshit. You trully are a coward hiding behind aliases. This very

piracy issue has already put Gorf on the cancelled list for good. There is no way am I going to be

subjected to lawsuits becuase of of bunch of low lifes who can't do the right thing with other people's

property.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Gorf

[SubQMod]

Making pirate copies of other developpers work? Nah, only JagCF developpers and supporters would do that.

http://jaysmith2000.ipbhost.com/index.php?...st&p=178174

 

 

How am I a hypocrite for trying to stop someone from copying a game I had to pull off the market?

I think I did the right thing. I made my mistake and corrected it. My mistake was an honest one for

anyone objective...but Fredrik/Deranged/Jag4House or whoeevryou really are, you are the hypocrite

becasue you actually condone such bullshit. You trully are a coward hiding behind aliases. This very

piracy issue has already put Gorf on the cancelled list for good. There is no way am I going to be

subjected to lawsuits becuase of of bunch of low lifes who can't do the right thing with other people's

property.

 

Testify Brother !!!!!

 

So many projects are being pulled, held back or cancelled because of exactly the type of crap that Gorf is talking about.

 

Ultimately, this could pull all the good programmers/teams underground or out of the game all together and none of us will benefit from their talents.

[Atariforce]

Making pirate copies of other developpers work? Nah, only JagCF developpers and supporters would do that.

http://jaysmith2000.ipbhost.com/index.php?...st&p=178174

 

 

How am I a hypocrite for trying to stop someone from copying a game I had to pull off the market?

I think I did the right thing. I made my mistake and corrected it. My mistake was an honest one for

anyone objective...but Fredrik/Deranged/Jag4House or whoeevryou really are, you are the hypocrite

becasue you actually condone such bullshit. You trully are a coward hiding behind aliases. This very

piracy issue has already put Gorf on the cancelled list for good. There is no way am I going to be

subjected to lawsuits becuase of of bunch of low lifes who can't do the right thing with other people's

property.

 

 

Actually, Gorf, that was not aimed at you, as you obviously got stabbed in the back by your own buddies. I apologize for not being clear on that one.

[spiffyone]

Spiffyone, I didn't talk about the holliday season, but the Christmas season. I know that DC sales were very good before that.

 

Just a clue here:

 

Holiday season is "Christmas season". Or, rather "Christmas season" is a part of the holiday shopping season.

 

 

Yes, but you guys being American, you got it the wrong way around again: Holiday in UK means 'vacation', nothing to do with 'holy days' (check Wiki), which are Bank Holidays in UK. So Pocket might have picked up on that, thinking you were talking about the vacation season, perhaps the summer vacation (meaning little sales due to people in Europe need money to 'spend their holidays' (vacation) in Spain (or France)).

 

English lesson part 1 for USA'ers: vacation = holiday, sidewalk = pavement, lift = elevator, trunk = boot, dust bin = wastebasket, knickers = panties....I could go on....

 

Sure, let's see what Wiki (lol) has to say.

 

Second line:

 

A contraction of holy and day, holidays originally represented special religious days.

 

But that's neither here nor there. Because in the US, it no longer represents "holy days" anyway.

 

But the "holiday shopping season" does.

 

In business, in product selling holiday = holiday buying season = old (before political correctness) buying season.

 

As the US is THE single largest buying nation (the single largest consumer base of any nation, NOTE: not continent, but single nation), business "language" and meanings are derived from American English.

 

Because the customer is always right.

 

Anyway, he specified "Chistmas season". I merely put it into our newly politically correct vernacular (why is UK behind the times on that one? I guess Jews and Muslims don't buy each other gifts during their "holidays" during that same time around Christmas, right?). There was a mistranslation on his part. So enough with your "Brits speak proper English". Holiday shopping season = the buying season around the winter holidays (including Christmas). It's the language used by producers of products, business vernacular, and that is informed by American English.

 

Business lesson for the Brits: The customer is always right. And there is no single biggest customer than the US in terms of nations.

 

Good day.

 

[spiffyone]

Spiffyone, I'll try to make it short, because we are off topic here

 

- Yes sorry, for me holliday season isn't christmas time, I think it's a difference of language.

 

I know. But the Brit over there couldn't deal with it in a more civil manner.

 

Besides which, we pretty much understood each other.

 

And don't worry about being off topic. This topic has already gone to hell in a handbasket. We've moved from JagCF to a lesson in economics apparently and why socialism doesn't work. A side discussion on DC isn't bad, especially when it was tied into the the overall discussion.

 

- I didn't wrote for "majors" being in France ok, but when you're in contact with SoE, does it matter ?

 

But the people at IGN, Gamespot, etc., and the site I linked to, were in contact with those at SoE. And SoA. And Sega Enterprises Ltd. in Japan. And their info differs from yours significantly.

 

Many people on Internet are going too far explaining pirating was a big part of DC fall, wich isn't the case.

+150 games were still in dev, and many more were unannounced at Sega, Ubi Soft, etc.

 

And more had been cancelled already. And more were being cancelled by the day. Sega announced 50 games in development. 3rd parties had far, far fewer. That doesn't equate to 150+ games in development. By holiday/Christmas/whatever the hell season 2000, 3rd parties were dropping like flies, and a lot of it had to do with rumors circulating around that time (most of which proved to be true, like Sega Japan deciding to kill the console off) as well as very favorable sales of PS2 in Japan (where they already eclipsed the total number of DC units owned in that region).

 

When Isao Okawa died and when he gave nearly one billion from is own pockets, to give Sega a new start, this move changed everything at Segas headquarters...

 

He gave the half billion when he took over completely, not after he died. And that was to give DC, and Sega, a better chance. But he noted endlessly that DC was going to be their last console. The writing on the wall happened when they missed projections by over 1/3 that shopping season (see? compromise with the language ) and by that time 3rd parties had cancelled left and right. The writing was on the wall, and Nintendo and MS especially shipping out dev kits for their consoles added to that a great deal. The main reason Sega killed it was because they didn't have the money to compete. Most of that was due to past incompetence in the early Saturn days (where they shot themselves in the foot repeatedly, much as Sony is doing nowadays). But part of the reason they killed DC (not THE part, but a part nonetheless) was due to them never making much on the software sales, and part of that was due to piracy.

 

It's not overblown to say that piracy was a part of the reason they killed it off, because it was. It wasn't THE reason, or the only reason, but it was a part of it.

 

- Less than one year after japan launch, at Sega's office. But they did not launch it.

 

What? The revised board?

 

They couldn't launch it. The total number of earlier units they produced hadn't been sold off yet. The total number of the earlier boards they had contracts with the factories to produce hadn't been completed yet. A company can't just stop the lines and say "you have to make this now instead". They have to wait until the number of units in storage, at retail, currently shipping or waiting to be shipped, and those that are to be produced under contract at the factories have begun dwindling. Then and only then can the new revisions be produced. So even if the new boards were done in '99, Sega would still have had to wait. Besides which, in '99 the pirates hadn't struck big time yet. Not until '00. And mid to late '00 is when the Revision 2 boards, which were supposedly anti-pirate, had been produced and shipped. The revision in '99, revision 1 boards, which you seem to be alluding to, hadn't had MIL-CD support removed. All that was removed was the heat sink from the original (0) boards produced in Japan, and lower cost components used. MIL-CD support was still there. If you were writing for mags, you should've known that little fact.

[Pocket]

Spiffyone, I don't agree with several points of your post but as I said I'm trying to respect the rules of this forum so I'll stop the off topic answers here, we can continue in private or on a DC forum

 

(just one thing about the +150 DC games, it's easy to find the lists everywhere, for ex : http://boards2.sega.com/sega_board/viewtop...reamcast+games)

[Orion_]

I posted proof at least...were is yours?

you should have check the video capture of my game "seaplane" when I show the preview at the RGC 2006 and in some video at AC2007

and I have no proof that surrounded actually run in main ram because you forbid to disassemble any of your code.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Orion_

[GT Turbo]

and I have no proof that surrounded actually run in main ram because you forbid to disassemble any of your code.

 

Orion, that's not very important to make GPU code running in main ram, that's run 6 times slower than in Gpu ram.

 

 

 

GT

[spiffyone]

Spiffyone, I don't agree with several points of your post but as I said I'm trying to respect the rules of this forum so I'll stop the off topic answers here, we can continue in private or on a DC forum

 

(just one thing about the +150 DC games, it's easy to find the lists everywhere, for ex : http://boards2.sega.com/sega_board/viewtop...reamcast+games)

 

Nice list.

 

Innacurrate, at least in regards to you trying to prove that 3rd parties weren't abandoning ship all throughout 2000.

 

The Bleempacks were cancelled when they switched to single game emulation. And the rest were cancelled when Bleem! went under in 2000, well before Sega went "under".

 

And that list is just a list of cancelled games regardless. It doesn't indicate when those games were cancelled, and just skimming through that list (which I have had on my PC, with screenshots and vids, for years now), and cross-referencing with available reports it's clear that a lot of those games were cancelled long before Sega pulled the plug on the console, and before shopping season 2000. It isn't a list of games that were cancelled only after they pulled the plug. It's a list of games cancelled throughout the DC's life cycle.

 

Again, if you wrote for a mag, you should've known that little fact. This isn't about rules of the forum. We haven't been following the rules for a while now. This is about you not wanting to be proved wrong. It's too late for that. Respond if you wish with another bit of info that doesn't prove your point at all and only strengthens mine. Again, piracy wasn't THE reason or the only reason, but it was part of the reason. I simply cannot understand how you could try to argue otherwise.