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My experiments with Atari 7800


Eagle

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Not moving the goal post as there is none to move,we disagree.This is the new norm now,people who are not equal now wants us to broaden our view to put them at the same level,that's not happening with me ever.Learning programming takes years in asm,those that do have earned respect,only in 2022 are others trying to claim very hard working people are in the same class as others.life does not work that way,I will never accept that ever,and will never broaden my view for anyone, so they can feel at the same level without earning it.

Edited by Traxx
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You don't need to learn ASM to make amazing games for the 7800, as evidenced by the huge crop of games that are in development for the 7800 now, many of which were written entirely in 7800BASIC. There's also no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. I don't think that kind of elitism or gatekeeping does anyone any good.

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On 8/21/2022 at 2:13 PM, Traxx said:

It's not elitism Karl,and I never said great games can't be done in basic either.

What you did state though:

Quote

You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming

 The above statement, RevEng quoted and responded with the following:

Quote

It's not a cult, and there's not just one true way to "show real dedicated love". Try to broaden your mind a bit.

After which, you responded with:

Quote

To get the most out of the hardware though it does take what I said,at the end of the day assembly is needed for the most sophisticated games there is no way around that.Those that learn assembly game programming are leaps and bounds beyond basic game programmers that is a fact,I cannot broaden my mind to the fact it takes 10+ years to master assembly programming,I understand your point but no,never are these two even close.

RevEng, in turn, replied:

Quote

Goalposts are being moved. Your claim was "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love". If you don't wish to broaden your mind to the fact that your hobby rules don't apply to others, then I guess we have nothing more to say here.

Your rebuttal states:

Quote

Not moving the goal post as there is none to move,we disagree.This is the new norm now,people who are not equal now wants us to broaden our view to put them at the same level,that's not happening with me ever.Learning programming takes years in asm,those that do have earned respect,only in 2022 are others trying to claim very hard working people are in the same class as others.life does not work that way,I will never accept that ever,and will never broaden my view for anyone, so they can feel at the same level without earning it.

Perhaps it is a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but from stating: "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming" to the statements, "To get the most out of the hardware though it does take what I said,at the end of the day assembly is needed for the most sophisticated games there is no way around that", is moving the goalposts of what RevEng was addressing.

 

No one was debating, "To get the most out of the hardware though it does take what I said,at the end of the day assembly is needed for the most sophisticated games there is no way around that."  No one was trying to broaden your view surrounding "Learning programming takes years in asm,those that do have earned respect,only in 2022 are others trying to claim very hard working people are in the same class as others.life does not work that way".  The latter went from a moving the goalposts response to providing a strawman retort.

 

The thrust of what prompted the responses goes back to the statement: "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming"

 

The quoted and in bold statement above, is what yielded the replies from RevEng and the statements from Karl.

 

Instead of, "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming", if perhaps the statements were more along the lines of "I discovered once I switched to programming in asm, I truly loved programming", or "From my experience, in order to bring out the best in a system when programming for it, I needed to switch to asm, and then also found myself truly loving to program", it would be taken in a completely different light.

 

Anyhow, it's a great hobby and certainly the 7800 platform, and programming for it, can be an exciting, wonderful, and adventurous time, often incorporating an individual's talent and passions or passionate perspectives.

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On 8/21/2022 at 2:07 PM, Karl G said:

You don't need to learn ASM to make amazing games for the 7800, as evidenced by the huge crop of games that are in development for the 7800 now, many of which were written entirely in 7800BASIC. There's also no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. I don't think that kind of elitism or gatekeeping does anyone any good.

Yes… true. But it’s fast!

when you get 8000 cycles in V-blank speed is priority, because in the visible area you get varying amounts of cycles due to Maria dma.

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1 hour ago, Ecernosoft said:

Yes… true. But it’s fast!

when you get 8000 cycles in V-blank speed is priority, because in the visible area you get varying amounts of cycles due to Maria dma.

I am getting multiple posts from users stating you are spamming multiple threads with the same or similar posts.  You need to slow down and contain your posts to a single thread if you are discussing the same information, or you are going to be put on moderator preview.

 

Thank you,

 

 ..Al

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1 hour ago, Albert said:

I am getting multiple posts from users stating you are spamming multiple threads with the same or similar posts.  You need to slow down and contain your posts to a single thread if you are discussing the same information, or you are going to be put on moderator preview.

 

Thank you,

 

 ..Al

Sorry. I'll hold myself back. I'm not intentionally trying to spam 😃

I'll stop posting for a bit.

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1 minute ago, Ecernosoft said:

Sorry. I'll hold myself back. I'm not intentionally trying to spam 😃

I'll stop posting for a bit.

Posting is fine, of course, but instead of stream-of-consciousness posts where you're submitting multiple posts in the same thread in a row, just doing a single post would be better.  As well as not posting in a whole bunch of different threads in a short period of time, unless you are contributing something unique to each thread that you haven't already said somewhere else.

 

Thank you,

 

 ..Al

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On 1/17/2021 at 12:04 PM, Eagle said:

First one. Full screen (160*192) scroll in 160B in charmode (2chars)

Graphics from Mayhem in Monsterland (C64)

I'm using only 7 colours so far. 

 

edit:

Linkt to JS7800

https://raz0red.github.io/js7800/?cart=https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=802867

 

 

Scroll.a78 32.13 kB · 342 downloads

I know I post too much, but I do have a question....

How did you achieve this? Can MARIA do a full-screen 320B scroll?

  

17 hours ago, Albert said:

Posting is fine, of course, but instead of stream-of-consciousness posts where you're submitting multiple posts in the same thread in a row, just doing a single post would be better.  As well as not posting in a whole bunch of different threads in a short period of time, unless you are contributing something unique to each thread that you haven't already said somewhere else.

 

Thank you,

 

 ..Al

Thanks for understanding. I'll try to go on those rules for now on.

 

Edited by Ecernosoft
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Source code attached. This is C64 style copy screen scroll.

No problem with 320B but no much DMA left for anything else.

 

(41bytes * 9cycles)+(2headers*10cycles)=369+20=389cycles MPU

454 Maria cycles per line - 389= 65 cycles left

DMA start-up and shutdown between 16-24 cycles per line

Worst case scenario you have 41 cycles MPU left per line

One sprite/object 12px wile cost 20 cycles MPU

So there is small chance that you will get 2 sprites per line

 

scroll160B.zip

Edited by Eagle
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31 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Source code attached. This is C64 style copy screen scroll.

No problem with 320B but no much DMA left for anything else.

 

(41bytes * 9cycles)+(2headers*10cycles)=369+20=389cycles MPU

454 Maria cycles per line - 389= 65 cycles left

DMA start-up and shutdown between 16-24 cycles per line

Worst case scenario you have 41 cycles MPU left per line

One sprite/object 12px wile cost 20 cycles MPU

So there is small chance that you will get 2 sprites per line

 

scroll160B.zip 11.15 kB · 2 downloads

So, I saw your dual backgrounds 160B scroll. How did you do that? I'm very confused as to how that's even possible!

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Just now, Eagle said:

Easy peasy ;)

Another C64 trick from Flimbo Quest. 
I did similar for A8 about 12 years ago. 

Secret is 4 charsets :) 
 

 

Oh wait- I know that trick. So you aren't actually rendering 2 backgrounds. Just using RAM to fake a second layer by changing the charset.

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1 hour ago, Stephen said:

That's sweet - proper bit-planes on the A8 :)

 And from today also on A7800 ;)

I think that I can do 3 bitplanes (4 max) easily. 
Unfortunately I’m using advantage of my new cart (hardware Konop mode from A8) so I can’t share bin file. 


C97A213C-522B-4FD2-9914-F774D02116F4.thumb.jpeg.5d4e42275bf85d86a7544e876dfb4a29.jpeg

 

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BIN and A78 file attached.

Bin file for 512KB SN+Covox cart 

A78 will work on A7800 and emulators but you will have missing lines because I'm using MirrorRam A8/A9

DF and emulators support only MirrorRam A8

Use both joysticks.

 

Note for myself *** Always clear Zero Page! *** (took me 3 hours to find out where I have problem in my code :(

 

I'm not sharing code yet.

Fader.bin Fader.a78

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On 8/21/2022 at 3:17 PM, Eagle said:

Start looking like old good A8 vs C64 topics or NES vs 7800 :D 

Hey! 7800 absolutley beats the NES in most things.

  

1 hour ago, Eagle said:

BIN and A78 file attached.

Bin file for 512KB SN+Covox cart 

A78 will work on A7800 and emulators but you will have missing lines because I'm using MirrorRam A8/A9

DF and emulators support only MirrorRam A8

Use both joysticks.

 

Note for myself *** Always clear Zero Page! *** (took me 3 hours to find out where I have problem in my code :(

 

I'm not sharing code yet.

Fader.bin 32 kB · 0 downloads Fader.a78 32.13 kB · 2 downloads

Also, The Fader.a78 file won't run on JS7800.

Edited by Ecernosoft
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