Traxx Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) Not moving the goal post as there is none to move,we disagree.This is the new norm now,people who are not equal now wants us to broaden our view to put them at the same level,that's not happening with me ever.Learning programming takes years in asm,those that do have earned respect,only in 2022 are others trying to claim very hard working people are in the same class as others.life does not work that way,I will never accept that ever,and will never broaden my view for anyone, so they can feel at the same level without earning it. Edited August 21, 2022 by Traxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 You don't need to learn ASM to make amazing games for the 7800, as evidenced by the huge crop of games that are in development for the 7800 now, many of which were written entirely in 7800BASIC. There's also no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. I don't think that kind of elitism or gatekeeping does anyone any good. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traxx Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) It's not elitism Karl,and I never said great games can't be done in basic either.People that spend 10,20+ years mastering asm are not in the same category as basic coders,that's my point,if you disagree that's fine. Edited August 21, 2022 by Traxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 On 8/21/2022 at 2:13 PM, Traxx said: It's not elitism Karl,and I never said great games can't be done in basic either. What you did state though: Quote You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming The above statement, RevEng quoted and responded with the following: Quote It's not a cult, and there's not just one true way to "show real dedicated love". Try to broaden your mind a bit. After which, you responded with: Quote To get the most out of the hardware though it does take what I said,at the end of the day assembly is needed for the most sophisticated games there is no way around that.Those that learn assembly game programming are leaps and bounds beyond basic game programmers that is a fact,I cannot broaden my mind to the fact it takes 10+ years to master assembly programming,I understand your point but no,never are these two even close. RevEng, in turn, replied: Quote Goalposts are being moved. Your claim was "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love". If you don't wish to broaden your mind to the fact that your hobby rules don't apply to others, then I guess we have nothing more to say here. Your rebuttal states: Quote Not moving the goal post as there is none to move,we disagree.This is the new norm now,people who are not equal now wants us to broaden our view to put them at the same level,that's not happening with me ever.Learning programming takes years in asm,those that do have earned respect,only in 2022 are others trying to claim very hard working people are in the same class as others.life does not work that way,I will never accept that ever,and will never broaden my view for anyone, so they can feel at the same level without earning it. Perhaps it is a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but from stating: "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming" to the statements, "To get the most out of the hardware though it does take what I said,at the end of the day assembly is needed for the most sophisticated games there is no way around that", is moving the goalposts of what RevEng was addressing. No one was debating, "To get the most out of the hardware though it does take what I said,at the end of the day assembly is needed for the most sophisticated games there is no way around that." No one was trying to broaden your view surrounding "Learning programming takes years in asm,those that do have earned respect,only in 2022 are others trying to claim very hard working people are in the same class as others.life does not work that way". The latter went from a moving the goalposts response to providing a strawman retort. The thrust of what prompted the responses goes back to the statement: "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming" The quoted and in bold statement above, is what yielded the replies from RevEng and the statements from Karl. Instead of, "You'll need to switch to asm to show real dedicated love.Not just for 7800 but to truly love programming", if perhaps the statements were more along the lines of "I discovered once I switched to programming in asm, I truly loved programming", or "From my experience, in order to bring out the best in a system when programming for it, I needed to switch to asm, and then also found myself truly loving to program", it would be taken in a completely different light. Anyhow, it's a great hobby and certainly the 7800 platform, and programming for it, can be an exciting, wonderful, and adventurous time, often incorporating an individual's talent and passions or passionate perspectives. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 Start looking like old good A8 vs C64 topics or NES vs 7800 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Eagle said: Start looking like old good A8 vs C64 topics or NES vs 7800 ZX Spectrum FTW! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Muddyfunster said: ZX Spectrum FTW! Oric Atmos or death, philistine! 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Hey… just an idea, but I was wondering if it would be possible to make a game using 320 mode artifacts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) I’ve managed to get 12 colors in 320b per palette. Edited August 27, 2022 by Ecernosoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 On 8/21/2022 at 2:07 PM, Karl G said: You don't need to learn ASM to make amazing games for the 7800, as evidenced by the huge crop of games that are in development for the 7800 now, many of which were written entirely in 7800BASIC. There's also no right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. I don't think that kind of elitism or gatekeeping does anyone any good. Yes… true. But it’s fast! when you get 8000 cycles in V-blank speed is priority, because in the visible area you get varying amounts of cycles due to Maria dma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Ecernosoft said: Yes… true. But it’s fast! when you get 8000 cycles in V-blank speed is priority, because in the visible area you get varying amounts of cycles due to Maria dma. I am getting multiple posts from users stating you are spamming multiple threads with the same or similar posts. You need to slow down and contain your posts to a single thread if you are discussing the same information, or you are going to be put on moderator preview. Thank you, ..Al 5 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Albert said: I am getting multiple posts from users stating you are spamming multiple threads with the same or similar posts. You need to slow down and contain your posts to a single thread if you are discussing the same information, or you are going to be put on moderator preview. Thank you, ..Al Sorry. I'll hold myself back. I'm not intentionally trying to spam 😃 I'll stop posting for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Ecernosoft said: Sorry. I'll hold myself back. I'm not intentionally trying to spam 😃 I'll stop posting for a bit. Posting is fine, of course, but instead of stream-of-consciousness posts where you're submitting multiple posts in the same thread in a row, just doing a single post would be better. As well as not posting in a whole bunch of different threads in a short period of time, unless you are contributing something unique to each thread that you haven't already said somewhere else. Thank you, ..Al 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) On 1/17/2021 at 12:04 PM, Eagle said: First one. Full screen (160*192) scroll in 160B in charmode (2chars) Graphics from Mayhem in Monsterland (C64) I'm using only 7 colours so far. edit: Linkt to JS7800 https://raz0red.github.io/js7800/?cart=https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=802867 Scroll.a78 32.13 kB · 342 downloads I know I post too much, but I do have a question.... How did you achieve this? Can MARIA do a full-screen 320B scroll? 17 hours ago, Albert said: Posting is fine, of course, but instead of stream-of-consciousness posts where you're submitting multiple posts in the same thread in a row, just doing a single post would be better. As well as not posting in a whole bunch of different threads in a short period of time, unless you are contributing something unique to each thread that you haven't already said somewhere else. Thank you, ..Al Thanks for understanding. I'll try to go on those rules for now on. Edited August 28, 2022 by Ecernosoft 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) Source code attached. This is C64 style copy screen scroll. No problem with 320B but no much DMA left for anything else. (41bytes * 9cycles)+(2headers*10cycles)=369+20=389cycles MPU 454 Maria cycles per line - 389= 65 cycles left DMA start-up and shutdown between 16-24 cycles per line Worst case scenario you have 41 cycles MPU left per line One sprite/object 12px wile cost 20 cycles MPU So there is small chance that you will get 2 sprites per line scroll160B.zip Edited August 28, 2022 by Eagle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Eagle said: Source code attached. This is C64 style copy screen scroll. No problem with 320B but no much DMA left for anything else. (41bytes * 9cycles)+(2headers*10cycles)=369+20=389cycles MPU 454 Maria cycles per line - 389= 65 cycles left DMA start-up and shutdown between 16-24 cycles per line Worst case scenario you have 41 cycles MPU left per line One sprite/object 12px wile cost 20 cycles MPU So there is small chance that you will get 2 sprites per line scroll160B.zip 11.15 kB · 2 downloads So, I saw your dual backgrounds 160B scroll. How did you do that? I'm very confused as to how that's even possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 Easy peasy Another C64 trick from Flimbo Quest. I did similar for A8 about 12 years ago. Secret is 4 charsets 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, Eagle said: Easy peasy Another C64 trick from Flimbo Quest. I did similar for A8 about 12 years ago. Secret is 4 charsets Oh wait- I know that trick. So you aren't actually rendering 2 backgrounds. Just using RAM to fake a second layer by changing the charset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) Yes. But you need two maps for both layers. IMHO more interesting is my other dual layer example. I did for A8 with 25fps Edited August 28, 2022 by Eagle 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, Eagle said: Yes. But you need two maps for both layers. IMHO more interesting is my other dual layer example. I did for A8 with 25fps You break my mind with that video... 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Eagle said: Yes. But you need two maps for both layers. IMHO more interesting is my other dual layer example. I did for A8 with 25fps That's sweet - proper bit-planes on the A8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Stephen said: That's sweet - proper bit-planes on the A8 And from today also on A7800 I think that I can do 3 bitplanes (4 max) easily. Unfortunately I’m using advantage of my new cart (hardware Konop mode from A8) so I can’t share bin file. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 BIN and A78 file attached. Bin file for 512KB SN+Covox cart A78 will work on A7800 and emulators but you will have missing lines because I'm using MirrorRam A8/A9 DF and emulators support only MirrorRam A8 Use both joysticks. Note for myself *** Always clear Zero Page! *** (took me 3 hours to find out where I have problem in my code ) I'm not sharing code yet. Fader.bin Fader.a78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecernosoft Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) On 8/21/2022 at 3:17 PM, Eagle said: Start looking like old good A8 vs C64 topics or NES vs 7800 Hey! 7800 absolutley beats the NES in most things. 1 hour ago, Eagle said: BIN and A78 file attached. Bin file for 512KB SN+Covox cart A78 will work on A7800 and emulators but you will have missing lines because I'm using MirrorRam A8/A9 DF and emulators support only MirrorRam A8 Use both joysticks. Note for myself *** Always clear Zero Page! *** (took me 3 hours to find out where I have problem in my code ) I'm not sharing code yet. Fader.bin 32 kB · 0 downloads Fader.a78 32.13 kB · 2 downloads Also, The Fader.a78 file won't run on JS7800. Edited August 29, 2022 by Ecernosoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 27 minutes ago, Ecernosoft said: Also, The Fader.a78 file won't run on JS7800. RescueOnFractalus use MirrorRam A8 and not working on JS7800 and ProSystem as well. Fader is working on A7800, BupSystem and DragonFly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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