Anyone care to check something for me. . . .

[Mittens0407]

2 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

I'll tell you this, Aaendi, what you have created and are showing for SNES in this SNES sub-forum is a million miles better than anything I've seen from Turboxray on SNES thus far. And, remember this, real gamers don't get particularly obsessed with what's going on under the hood, but rather what they can actually see and play with their own eyes. And your game is legit, especially for someone who I think is creating it all themselves. That's what the real SNES fans in here should be appreciating and celebrating in the SNES sub-forum. So, from me at least, you get major kudos. Keep up the great work.

I'll tell you this, Aaendi and Turboxray, what you have created and are showing for SNES in this SNES sub-forum is a million miles better than the nothing I've seen from Kirk on SNES thus far. And, remember this, real developers don't wait for someone to make a codeblocks idiot game engine for them, but rather put in a little effort on their own part because perhaps they should expect developing for a 30+ year old proprietary system to be slightly difficult. And your games are legit, especially for people who I think are creating them all themselves. That's what the real SNES fans in here should be appreciating and celebrating in the SNES sub-forum. So, from me at least, you get major kudos. Keep up the great work.

[Aaendi]

I don't know if Turboxray means by "hardcoding" stuff, if he means I'm using too much code, not enough look up tables, or too many look up tables, not enough code?, but then again I don't know what code he's referring to.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Aaendi

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

30 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

And, remember this, real gamers don't get particularly obsessed with what's going on under the hood, but rather what they can actually see and play with their own eyes. 

😛Hypocrisy thy name is KIRK. 

The lack of self-awareness is mind-boggling. 

 

 

 

[+bent_pin]

11 minutes ago, Aaendi said:

I don't know if Turboxray means by "hardcoding" stuff, if he means I'm using too much code, not enough look up tables, or too many look up tables, not enough code?

Probably the overuse of magic numbers as well as the lack of optimization through subroutines, iteration, and LUTs. That's typically what I see with students who put in the minimum to get things going and haven't read anything on structured and proper imperative programming.

[Tanooki]

You know I'm finding a weird ironic level of amusement here seeing some parallels and hard differences in comments being thrown towards AAendi and what Kirk gets.  Both of them come from the similar ground that the SNES can do more, ignore people, say it can do it, and try and make ways to do it.  Where that ends, that clip above shows that being done in that boss fight where you have a proof of theory, and then there's gamemaker and photoshop.  Might be a great lesson in how to and now NOT to.  Also same with taking a comment and responding well, or like a furious toddler borderline OD'n on pixie sticks.

[+bent_pin]

Quite often when I reply to this and other threads of his, I see Kirk has visited my profile shortly thereafter. 

 

[Aaendi]

28 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

You know I'm finding a weird ironic level of amusement here seeing some parallels and hard differences in comments being thrown towards AAendi and what Kirk gets.  Both of them come from the similar ground that the SNES can do more, ignore people, say it can do it, and try and make ways to do it.  Where that ends, that clip above shows that being done in that boss fight where you have a proof of theory, and then there's gamemaker and photoshop.  Might be a great lesson in how to and now NOT to.  Also same with taking a comment and responding well, or like a furious toddler borderline OD'n on pixie sticks.

If you think Kirk is annoying now, I used to be a billion times more annoying than Kirk.  I can't look at old threads of mine without cringing.

 

I totally can see where Kirk is coming from.  I made the same mistake of bragging about a system and all the stuff I wanted to make the system do without getting anything working first, but nobody wanted to help me get things started.  There were a gazillion documents explaining ASM and what hardware registers do, but not very many articles explaining how to set up a programming environment.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Aaendi

[Kirk_Johnston]

9 minutes ago, Aaendi said:

If you think Kirk is annoying now, I used to be a billion times more annoying than Kirk.  I can't look at old threads of mine without cringing.

 

I'll take a hundred of you (then and now), and indeed me (I'm very modest).

Edited November 17, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Austin]

15 minutes ago, Aaendi said:

If you think Kirk is annoying now, I used to be a billion times more annoying than Kirk.  I can't look at old threads of mine without cringing.

I highly doubt that. You've actually made something.

 

Kirk on the other hand is a f*cking idiot and only peddles ideas.

[KulorXL]

6 hours ago, Aaendi said:

You're still going to bring up the whole "SNES can't handle more than 4 sprites onscreen" nonsense?

Turboxray knows it's not a hardware limitation, he's seen my game after all!

6 hours ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

There's some pretty severe sprite dropout happening in those videos.

That seems to be a sort of consequence of not having flexible sprite sizing on the SNES, unfortunately. I think this demo is using 16x16 + 32x32 as the sizes, and it's much easier to end up hitting the sprite line limit without 8x8s to work with. My game is gonna have dropout too, I'm mostly just trying to mitigate it through design so it's not too severe.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

3 hours ago, Aaendi said:

I don't know if Turboxray means by "hardcoding" stuff, if he means I'm using too much code, not enough look up tables, or too many look up tables, not enough code?, but then again I don't know what code he's referring to.

This is by no means meant to be an insult to your work, as I do appreciate what you've been able to pull off. That said there have been some things I've been curious about. Your demo obviously gets compared to stuff like Gunstar Heroes a lot and considering it started as an attempt to port that if I remember correctly that seems to be intentional. Is there a plan at some point to go back and work on the enemy behavior? Reason being is a lot of it in the videos appears to be just mindlessly moving from one side of the screen to the other without really any kind of reaction to the player or an attempt to attack them. Same with the multi-jointed bosses.

 

When you look at games like Gunstar Heroes and Alien Soldier the enemies all have a bit more to them than just being mindless fodder to shoot. They react to the player, move towards them, try to attack them in various different ways, etc. The bosses in many cases will have a limb or something that tracks the players movement before an attack, they do different attacks based on where the player is, etc. Is your demo able to allow for that kind of interactive enemy behavior or are there limits to what can be done?

 

5 minutes ago, KulorXL said:

That seems to be a sort of consequence of not having flexible sprite sizing on the SNES, unfortunately. I think this demo is using 16x16 + 32x32 as the sizes, and it's much easier to end up hitting the sprite line limit without 8x8s to work with. My game is gonna have dropout too, I'm mostly just trying to mitigate it through design so it's not too severe.

Oh I was just being snarky. Gunstar and Alien Soldier have drop out too, though it tends to be focused mostly around where the player's bullets are hitting.

[Aaendi]

54 minutes ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

This is by no means meant to be an insult to your work, as I do appreciate what you've been able to pull off. That said there have been some things I've been curious about. Your demo obviously gets compared to stuff like Gunstar Heroes a lot and considering it started as an attempt to port that if I remember correctly that seems to be intentional. Is there a plan at some point to go back and work on the enemy behavior? Reason being is a lot of it in the videos appears to be just mindlessly moving from one side of the screen to the other without really any kind of reaction to the player or an attempt to attack them. Same with the multi-jointed bosses.

 

When you look at games like Gunstar Heroes and Alien Soldier the enemies all have a bit more to them than just being mindless fodder to shoot. They react to the player, move towards them, try to attack them in various different ways, etc. The bosses in many cases will have a limb or something that tracks the players movement before an attack, they do different attacks based on where the player is, etc. Is your demo able to allow for that kind of interactive enemy behavior or are there limits to what can be done?

 

Oh I was just being snarky. Gunstar and Alien Soldier have drop out too, though it tends to be focused mostly around where the player's bullets are hitting.

Good point.  I keep forgetting about enemy AI.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

8 hours ago, Aaendi said:

If you think Kirk is annoying now, I used to be a billion times more annoying than Kirk.  I can't look at old threads of mine without cringing.

That just means you've grown as a person.

8 hours ago, Aaendi said:

 

I totally can see where Kirk is coming from.  I made the same mistake of bragging about a system and all the stuff I wanted to make the system do without getting anything working first, but nobody wanted to help me get things started.  There were a gazillion documents explaining ASM and what hardware registers do, but not very many articles explaining how to set up a programming environment.

If I get enough requests I may make a tutorial on setting up a dev environment.

[Razzie.P]

8 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

 

I'll take a hundred of you (then and now), and indeed me (I'm very modest).

I wonder how many of those "crazy ones" who changed the world did so by posting youtube videos and crossing fingers hoping someone else will do the work?  I'm thinking they learned to play their own guitars, learned to box and fight their own fights, learned to make their own films, learned to fly their own planes, etc.  I'd imagine it would have been a lot different if they'd sat around complaining that someone else should come along and make everything so easy that "anybody can do it." 

 

 

 

[Razzie.P]

24 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

That just means you've grown as a person.

If I get enough requests I may make a tutorial on setting up a dev environment.

How many is enough.  I'll request it.  Kirk clearly needs it, so we can request by proxy.   That's 2  😁   

[Tanooki]

Oh this should be good, I'll take the 3 card

[+bent_pin]

[jeffythedragonslayer]

6 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

How many is enough.  I'll request it.

When it becomes less work for me to write a tutorial than to support people who are getting suck individually.  What tools do people want to use, ca65, WLA, PVSnesLib?

[+Biff Burgertime]

1 hour ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

When it becomes less work for me to write a tutorial than to support people who are getting suck individually.  What tools do people want to use, ca65, WLA, PVSnesLib?

Surely these tools already have documentation...?

 

^{hehe getting suck individually}

[jeffythedragonslayer]

3 minutes ago, Biff Burgertime said:

Surely these tools already have documentation...?

 

^{hehe getting suck individually}

They do have documentation, but that is mostly reference material not "let me walk you through how to set this thing up."

[TrekkiesUnite118]

10 hours ago, Aaendi said:

I totally can see where Kirk is coming from.  I made the same mistake of bragging about a system and all the stuff I wanted to make the system do without getting anything working first, but nobody wanted to help me get things started.  There were a gazillion documents explaining ASM and what hardware registers do, but not very many articles explaining how to set up a programming environment.

1 hour ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

When it becomes less work for me to write a tutorial than to support people who are getting suck individually.  What tools do people want to use, ca65, WLA, PVSnesLib?

 

Honestly for Kirk I don't think it really matters how much documentation and tutorials exist. The drive needs to be there to actually learn it. For example with me doing Saturn stuff when I wanted to actually start making my own homebrew apps I didn't just sit around and beg people to make a game maker engine for me. The approach I took is the one that usually works best for me to start learning, and that's looking at examples and playing with them and then starting to build from there. So I asked some people in the community if they had some simple examples that used SBL or SGL that showed how to do basic stuff like set up VDP2 tilemaps, use sprites, etc. Some people in the community linked me to their github projects and were able to help me get them compiling on Windows, and from there I was able to start playing with their code, trying things out, asking useful targeted questions when I got stuck, etc. And from there I was able to start learning.

 

Would that work for everyone? Probably not. But the point is there was drive to do it and ask for the right kind of help. I don't see any of that drive in Kirk. Just pointless questions to help him win console war arguments. With Kirk I don't think there's any actual drive to learn how to make SNES homebrew himself, the "I need a game maker tool!" is just an excuse to deflect with. If he actually wanted to learn this stuff he'd be showing a lot more initiative to actually start learning and getting something up and running. I've yet to see him actually ask for help in setting up a simple hello world, or asking for example code to tinker with, etc.

 

So if you guys want to write tools and guides for it, do it because you actually want to do it. Don't do it because you think it will get Kirk to actually start making something. You'd just be wasting your time on that one.

Edited November 18, 2023 by TrekkiesUnite118

[jeffythedragonslayer]

8 minutes ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

 

Honestly for Kirk I don't think it really matters how much documentation and tutorials exist. The drive needs to be there to actually learn it. For example with me doing Saturn stuff when I wanted to actually start making my own homebrew apps I didn't just sit around and beg people to make a game maker engine for me. The approach I took is the one that usually works best for me to start learning, and that's looking at examples and playing with them and then starting to build from there. So I asked some people in the community if they had some simple examples that used SBL or SGL that showed how to do basic stuff like set up VDP2 tilemaps, use sprites, etc. Some people in the community linked me to their github projects and were able to help me get them compiling on Windows, and from there I was able to start playing with their code, trying things out, asking useful targeted questions when I got stuck, etc. And from there I was able to start learning.

 

Would that work for everyone? Probably not. But the point is there was drive to do it and ask for the right kind of help. I don't see any of that drive in Kirk. Just pointless questions to help him win console war arguments. With Kirk I don't think there's any actual drive to learn how to make SNES homebrew himself, the "I need a game maker tool!" is just an excuse to deflect with. If he actually wanted to learn this stuff he'd be showing a lot more initiative to actually start learning and getting something up and running. I've yet to see him actually ask for help in getting setting up a simple hello world, or asking for example code to tinker with, etc.

 

So if you guys want to write tools and guides for it, do it because you actually want to do it. Don't do it because you think it will get Kirk to actually start making something. You'd just be wasting your time on that one.

Well, I for one find Kirk's technical questions very interesting.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

2 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

Well, I for one find Kirk's technical questions very interesting.

If you think "how many bytes of data can I fit in 64KB of VRAM" is an interesting question to be asked over and over again then suit yourself I guess.

Edited November 18, 2023 by TrekkiesUnite118

[+Biff Burgertime]

Maybe we can all pitch in and buy him a copy of this:

 

 

ah shit that's right, he doesn't actually play games. I'll go search YouTube for a gameplay video...

[Kirk_Johnston]

4 hours ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

That just means you've grown as a person.

If I get enough requests I may make a tutorial on setting up a dev environment.

I say give it a go. Any attempt at opening up SNES development to more people is absolutely welcome by me. And, even if I personally still can't follow your guide either, it might just be enough for a couple of others who are interested in SNES development and haven't yet found the language and instruction they are looking for to get them over the first hurdles to starting actually coding something directly for it. Best wishes on that.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston